CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[tphuang]

TBF the ramp launch is shown there conducted from the waist position instead of the bow launch position, so the distance the J-15 would have to travel before clearing the deck would be greater than the J-15T.

Granted a catapult launch would be faster either way, still this is a more apt (as much as ramp launch vs cat launch is apt) illustration -

https://imgur.com/tOmVbOg

I'm not measuring the speed based on how long the clip takes, but rather what my visual perception of how fast it was moving frame by frame. Do not assume how I came to the conclusion of aircraft speed without evidence.

Obviously, on Stobar, it would have to go longer distance to get speed up to a level where it can take off from a ramp.

 

[Helius]

I'm not measuring the speed based on how long the clip takes, but rather what my visual perception of how fast it was moving frame by frame. Do not assume how I came to the conclusion of aircraft speed without evidence.

Obviously, on Stobar, it would have to go longer distance to get speed up to a level where it can take off from a ramp.

I'm not assuming your methodology one way or the other on whatever point you were trying to make.

I merely pointed out that both planes taking off from their respective bow launch positions is more illustrative of whatever conclusion one might make of a 'STOBAR vs CATOBAR' comparison, than a comparison showing one plane having to travel the extra distance than the other on an already decided race to reach that same conclusion (e.g. like I said, catapult-assisted launch would be decisively quicker to get airborne than short take-off from the bow launch point, let alone from the waist).

 

[Atomicfrog]

TBF the ramp launch is shown there conducted from the waist position instead of the bow launch position, so the distance the J-15 would have to travel before clearing the deck would be greater than the J-15T.

Granted a catapult launch would be faster either way, still this is a more apt (as much as ramp launch vs cat launch is apt) illustration -

https://imgur.com/tOmVbOg

It look to go so much faster after the catapult launch that it hurt the eyes to see it fly off on the stobar.

 

[vincent]

I'm not assuming your methodology one way or the other on whatever point you were trying to make.

I merely pointed out that both planes taking off from their respective bow launch positions is more illustrative of whatever conclusion one might make of a 'STOBAR vs CATOBAR' comparison, than a comparison showing one plane having to travel the extra distance than the other on an already decided race to reach that same conclusion (e.g. like I said, catapult-assisted launch would be decisively quicker to get airborne than short take-off from the bow launch point, let alone from the waist).

I think the original poster wanted to compare the launch time for a fully loaded plane. On STOBAR carrier the plane has to be launched from the third position.

 

[Helius]

I think the original poster wanted to compare the launch time for a fully loaded plane. On STOBAR carrier the plane has to be launched from the third position.

Sure, then the "noticeable MTOW difference" as he said in his posting would be that much more apparent in the case of both planes launching from their respective bow launch points, as opposed to a STOBAR J-15 able to launch fully loaded from the waist, where such MTOW difference would not be as apparent, if that.

 

[daifo]

The stobar launch from the front can be describe as "weakish" in terms of appearance, many of the PLAN trailers speed the scene to make it look more "impactful"

 

[tphuang]

I'm not assuming your methodology one way or the other on whatever point you were trying to make.

I merely pointed out that both planes taking off from their respective bow launch positions is more illustrative of whatever conclusion one might make of a 'STOBAR vs CATOBAR' comparison, than a comparison showing one plane having to travel the extra distance than the other on an already decided race to reach that same conclusion (e.g. like I said, catapult-assisted launch would be decisively quicker to get airborne than short take-off from the bow launch point, let alone from the waist).

Sure, then the "noticeable MTOW difference" as he said in his posting would be that much more apparent in the case of both planes launching from their respective bow launch points, as opposed to a STOBAR J-15 able to launch fully loaded from the waist, where such MTOW difference would not be as apparent, if that.

Just stop making assumption about what I'm trying to say. If you don't know, then don't make any assumptions.

You don't seem to understand what I was referring to with "MTOW differences".

You just don't know, period.

I don't know why you repeatedly double down on this stuff.

It look to go so much faster after the catapult launch that it hurt the eyes to see it fly off on the stobar.

exactly. I don't know why people need to go deeper than that.
Take a look at the two videos using your eyes. Which one is obviously going faster?

There are these videos going around now

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971617389101175203

Which is interesting to watch

 

[Helius]

Just stop making assumption about what I'm trying to say. If you don't know, then don't make any assumptions.

You don't seem to understand what I was referring to with "MTOW differences".

You just don't know, period.

I don't know why you repeatedly double down on this stuff.


exactly. I don't know why people need to go deeper than that.
Take a look at the two videos using your eyes. Which one is obviously going faster?

There are these videos going around now

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971617389101175203

Which is interesting to watch

Again, my response had nothing to do with whatever you’re trying to say, which I honestly don’t know at this point, yes, nor do I care much to know. Re-read my reply to you, and kindly point out what “measurement” or “conclusion” of yours I was disputing there, or don't, I don't much care either.

Like I said, I don’t assume anything of you. In fact, don’t assume people make any assumptions of you.

Because if I were, I would say this is sounding more like you get annoyed at what you perceive as being contradicted for statements that you put out. That’s what I would assume.

Your video shows two planes running at dissimilar distances to arrive at an obvious outcome of the vast discrepant speed differences between the launch methods; whereas my video shows two planes running at similar distances to arrive at an also obvious outcome of the indisputable speed differences between the launch methods. I don't see how one contradicts the other, if contradiction is your bias here, were I to assume.

So the “doubling-down” sounds more like projection to me, esp. how you’ve doubled-down on this odd fixation on CATOBAR launch speeds over STOBAR in repeatedly stating how much faster the former is over the latter, which I didn’t even dispute in my replies.

So you’re right, I don’t know what you’re on about with any of it.

 

[tphuang]

Again, my response had nothing to do with whatever you’re trying to say, which I honestly don’t know at this point, yes, nor do I care much to know. Re-read my reply to you, and kindly point out what “measurement” or “conclusion” of yours I was disputing there, or don't, I don't much care either.

Like I said, I don’t assume anything of you. In fact, don’t assume people make any assumptions of you.

Because if I were, I would say this is sounding more like you get annoyed at what you perceive as being contradicted for statements that you put out. That’s what I would assume.

Your video shows two planes running at dissimilar distances to arrive at an obvious outcome of the vast discrepant speed differences between the launch methods; whereas my video shows two planes running at similar distances to arrive at an also obvious outcome of the indisputable speed differences between the launch methods. I don't see how one contradicts the other, if contradiction is your bias here, were I to assume.

So the “doubling-down” sounds more like projection to me, esp. how you’ve doubled-down on this odd fixation on CATOBAR launch speeds over STOBAR in repeatedly stating how much faster the former is over the latter, which I didn’t even dispute in my replies.

So you’re right, I don’t know what you’re on about with any of it.

Again, the videos show aircraft moving at a certain speed. It is up to the individual person to perceive what those speeds are. But it's quite obvious which one accelerates faster and is going faster by the end.

Catobar launches getting aircraft to an optimal speed faster than Stobar is something that's quite well known. But it's still interesting to see it on video, because seeing videos of them side by side is a good visualization of a concept that we've assumed for a long time. In fact, that's why I also post the EMAL with J-35 and steam catapult with F-35C. It's just interesting to see these things side by side.

If you want to do your own demonstration, go ahead and post your stuff separately.

But don't quote me and make assumptions about what I meant with "noticeable MTOW difference" or how to determine which aircraft is going faster.


This is my last response to you on this topic.

 

[Helius]

Again, the videos show aircraft moving at a certain speed. It is up to the individual person to perceive what those speeds are. But it's quite obvious which one accelerates faster and is going faster by the end.

How is this a dispute? Did I dispute it?

Catobar launches getting aircraft to an optimal speed faster than Stobar is something that's quite well known. But it's still interesting to see it on video, because seeing videos of them side by side is a good visualization of a concept that we've assumed for a long time. In fact, that's why I also post the EMAL with J-35 and steam catapult with F-35C. It's just interesting to see these things side by side.

Again, how is this a dispute? Did I dispute it?

Of course all that is interesting, so that relates to a comparison of CATOBAR and STOBAR launches from bow positions vis-a-vis CATOBAR launch and STOBAR launch from waist position, how?

If you want to do your own demonstration, go ahead and post your stuff separately.

I posted my own demonstration in contrast to yours as a point of reference. I would say both are just as valid, but that’s just me. I wouldn’t assume you would agree.

But don't quote me and make assumptions about what I meant with "noticeable MTOW difference" or how to determine which aircraft is going faster.

The 3rd time I’m telling you - you have nothing worthwhile to assume about. I don't know why you repeatedly double down on this stuff. Determine which aircraft is going faster as you please, that’s not what my reply to you was about, also 3rd time I’m telling you now.

This is my last response to you on this topic.

Very well.