CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Intrepid]

It is good that we are talking about steam or electromagnetic drive. Then we do not ask ourselves whether the next carrier gets catapults at all.

 

[Blitzo]

A good debunk of such false claims.

Around the issue of catapult, one false claim is the so-called "design has been frozen for steam", the other similar one is "steam being more mature (for China)".

I am always "fascinated" by some people over the internet doing this kind of things, essentially they fabricate a false and baseless claim, dress it up as "scientific fact" to propagate their wish (steam cat used on 1st CATOBAR carrier of PLAN".

It would make perfect sense in a political or economical propaganda war that gives benefit in return. But what kind of benefit would they get from PLAN CV construction? Something they are not able to influence anyway. The behavior is close to insanity.

To be honest in some cases I think their "wish" is actually a genuine result of their own sincere beliefs and their own way of thinking.

I remember back in the mid to late 2000s when discussion of J-XX was the big hot topic for Chinese military matters, on quite a few forums I found quite a few people on the internet (many seemingly from a western background) rubbishing the idea that the Chinese aerospace industry could dare to build a stealth fighter with a stealth shaping like that of F-22 without first building an angular facing stealth aircraft like F-117, because obviously that was the path that the USAF took and the idea that the Chinese Air Force could progress in a way which bypasses a step that the USAF took was somehow impossible to comprehend in their eyes. There was even a popular suggestion that the J-XX wouldn't even have an internal weapons bay because such a thing would likely be too advanced for the Chinese.

Now, I'm not sure if 002 will definitely use steam or EM catapults, but the skepticism towards the EM catapult option does remind me of the talk surrounding what J-XX may end up looking like... and I think they must truly believe their claims or conclusions to be very logical. But that's because their assessment of China's technological competency and their application of logic seems to vastly differ from us.

 

[taxiya]

To be honest in some cases I think their "wish" is actually a genuine result of their own sincere beliefs and their own way of thinking.

I remember back in the mid to late 2000s when discussion of J-XX was the big hot topic for Chinese military matters, on quite a few forums I found quite a few people on the internet (many seemingly from a western background) rubbishing the idea that the Chinese aerospace industry could dare to build a stealth fighter with a stealth shaping like that of F-22 without first building an angular facing stealth aircraft like F-117, because obviously that was the path that the USAF took and the idea that the Chinese Air Force could progress in a way which bypasses a step that the USAF took was somehow impossible to comprehend in their eyes. There was even a popular suggestion that the J-XX wouldn't even have an internal weapons bay because such a thing would likely be too advanced for the Chinese.

Now, I'm not sure if 002 will definitely use steam or EM catapults, but the skepticism towards the EM catapult option does remind me of the talk surrounding what J-XX may end up looking like... and I think they must truly believe their claims or conclusions to be very logical. But that's because their assessment of China's technological competency and their application of logic seems to vastly differ from us.

Indeed the J-XX was another good example.

I myself also agree that "wish" was genuine belief, but only until the point where the "design frozen for steam" and "taking USN's experience and maturity as PLAN's" came around. Apparently "design frozen" is something made by non-professionals but claimed to be truth. Going with and beyond that point makes those people "insane" or self-indulging or self-serving IMO.

I am all "ok" with people under-estimating Chinese development so long as there is no proof of their being wrong. Being ignorant or skeptical (due to lack of information) is understandable but lying (to others and oneself) is totally another thing.

 

[Jeff Head]

I personally think...and have felt for some time...that segments of the 002 carrier are being built already.

Many here have flet that the actual vessel itself might be building some where...but it could easily have been a mixing together of rumors off 001A and 002 that got people there.

Personally...it may or may not be so. We now have a certain "big shrimp" saying that the designh has not been finalized which would employ that not even first metal has been cut, or any other modules.

Maybe so...but somehow I believe that there is not only continuing design work going on at certain levels...but also module building.

Numerous nations have utilized various levels of concurrent design, particularly when the parts being still designed while the larger sections and modules...and in some cases the hulls...are built are going to fit into those spaces in any case and where the interface is already fairly well known.

If they have not made a final decision on the catapult system, there are large differences in how and where they fit together that would necessitate large portions of the overall construction awaiting their completion.

Just as it would if the propulsion system is not decided on.

I believe the propulsion system probably has been decided upon and believe the PLAN woudl be smart to build their first two CATOBAR carriers with steam cats. If that were the case, I would even be more convinced that things are coming together somewhere.

Time will tell.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I guess some one in CDF translate the main point of Dr Ma Weiming lecture at Shanghai university? Reading it I don't get the impression that he imply EMAL won the competition.What he said is the construction is halted pending the outcome of open competition which will be announced next month

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Latest lecture by Prof. Ma implies EMALS won the competition of CV 002 catapult selection, which leads to the suspension of 002 construction

 

[Blitzo]

I guess some one in CDF translate the main point of Dr Ma Weiming lecture at Shanghai university? Reading it I don't get the impression that he imply EMAL won the competition.What he said is the construction is halted pending the outcome of open competition which will be announced next month

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Latest lecture by Prof. Ma implies EMALS won the competition of CV 002 catapult selection, which leads to the suspension of 002 construction

a translation of a summary of this talk was posted in another thread yesterday, it just hasn't been posted here yet.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-breaking-news-pics-videos.t7079/page-122#post-461000

Ma Weiming, the star scientist from PLA University of Navy Engineering, recently accepted a invitation from his friend, the president of Shanghai University, to give a talk with students there on innovation and future career advice.

During this talk, he disclosed much information regarding PLA's future weapons platform:

(1) The next CV for PLAN will mostly likely to be equipped with electromagnetic aircraft launch system there is open competition, the results will be announced next month, and he implies he will win due to huge lead comparing to the competitors.

And he told that Presidnent Xi Jinping personally order the build of next Chinese CV on-hold until the competition is over.

Ma pointed out the design flaws of the EMAL on the Ford and claimed that his own version of EMALS will be far more efficient and won't have health hazard to the crew unlike the one on Ford class.

(3) More interestingly, the high speed submersible battleship concept, developed by another professor from the same school, is nicknamed as a "all-round" capable warship by General Ma; he told the students that such a ship will be equipped with laser/EM, railguns, and fully-electrified powertrain and transmission system.

Most interesting part is: He mentioned that the ASBMs on such novel class of a battleship will be electromagnetically-launched, which means that such ASBMs will use much smaller boost-stage and overall weight and yet would still deliver the same amount of payload/range compared to their conventional counterpart.

Note that electromagnetic-launched commerical rockets are also developed parallely by China Aerospace Science & Industry Corp, also using Ma Weiming's electromagnetic -launch technology:

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(4) During the talk, Ma also show a video of EMALS-launched J-15 and also mentioned that China's electronic powertrain/transmission systems are at least 1 generation better than the next gen US comparable systems, and that China's electrified powertrain will be also used on next gen systems like SSN/SSBN/tanks.

 

[asif iqbal]

So China is going to leap frog from ski jump to EMALS??

No steam cats for experience from China ?

The only problem is that with such a leap in technology you get inherit flaws in operations which simply can't be gained by any other means

I hope China does not in cooperate certain handicaps due to this jump in technology

 

[latenlazy]

So China is going to leap frog from ski jump to EMALS??

No steam cats for experience from China ?

The only problem is that with such a leap in technology you get inherit flaws in operations which simply can't be gained by any other means

I hope China does not in cooperate certain handicaps due to this jump in technology

Steam and EM are two completely different technologies which share almost no mechanical characteristics. Not much could have been gained by for EM by going to Steam first, at least where the engineering is concerned (EM is also in may ways a mechanically simpler technology).

 

[AndrewS]

Steam and EM are two completely different technologies which share almost no mechanical characteristics. Not much could have been gained by for EM by going to Steam first, at least where the engineering is concerned (EM is also in may ways a mechanically simpler technology).

Yes, EM is actually a much simpler technology than steam.

With EM, it is much easier to replace the components if required e.g. The electricity generators, the power cables can't break, the energy storage units and the launch rails.

With steam, you've mechanically complex conduits/components under high temps and high pressure buried deep inside the hull.

Also, look at the automotive industry. Chinese automakers would have to pour in vast resources to produce mechanically complex car engines on par with those from abroad.

So the government and industry decided to go with electric batteries and electric motors which is a far easier technology to master, and is the future anyway.

 

[Intrepid]

No steam cats for experience from China?

China has at least one steam cat and one EMALS cat to gain experience.