CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[bd popeye]

And based on the photos/video clips of CV-16 that we have seen so far, they have been doing it correctly. Our own Popeye with decades of CV experience seems to be satisfied with what he has seen on the CV-16. So their training has been effective. I think that is all what we can say at the moment. Comparing the PLAN with the Indian Navy is, IMHO, a complete waste of time. The only way to find out whose training is more effective to direct conflict, which none of us wants to see.

Thank you.

And yes the PLAN is slowly and methodically training up their CV crews properly. Still there are things I'd like to see but so far the PLAN is building crews and air wings that know how to operate a CV. One of the areas you see with the PLAN you do not see with the IN or Russian navy is safety gear. i.e.>>> Helmets, life vest safety shoes. All essentials in operating a CV safely.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Thank you.

And yes the PLAN is slowly and methodically training up their CV crews properly. Still there are things I'd like to see but so far the PLAN is building crews and air wings that know how to operate a CV. One of the areas you see with the PLAN you do not see with the IN or Russian navy is safety gear. i.e.>>> Helmets, life vest safety shoes. All essentials in operating a CV safely.

Yes, IN lacks a lot of safety gear and while that doesn;t necessarily means lack of training it does tells me the program can be improve.

 

[Blackstone]

Thank you.

And yes the PLAN is slowly and methodically training up their CV crews properly. Still there are things I'd like to see but so far the PLAN is building crews and air wings that know how to operate a CV. One of the areas you see with the PLAN you do not see with the IN or Russian navy is safety gear. i.e.>>> Helmets, life vest safety shoes. All essentials in operating a CV safely.

I can't imagine PLAN is trying to cut cost, so the lack of simple safety gears suggest PLAN hasn't done enough carrier operations to know how important the gear is. They might be improving, but PRC deck aviation is still at infancy and will require much more improvements to match Indian, French, and UK carrier programs, to say nothing about matching the USN.

 

[PiSigma]

I think you misunderstood Popeye. He said the PLAN have safety gear while the Russians and Indians do not.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I can't imagine PLAN is trying to cut cost, so the lack of simple safety gears suggest PLAN hasn't done enough carrier operations to know how important the gear is. They might be improving, but PRC deck aviation is still at infancy and will require much more improvements to match Indian, French, and UK carrier programs, to say nothing about matching the USN.

LOL Too desperate to insult China --> reading comprehension fail

And you also didn't bother to fact-check it either before jumping on board, which confirms that you liked what you (thought you) read, so you ate it all up. No evidence, no proof needed this time.

Gettin' pretty embarrassing, Stoney.

 

[perfume]

I can't imagine PLAN is trying to cut cost, so the lack of simple safety gears suggest PLAN hasn't done enough carrier operations to know how important the gear is. They might be improving, but PRC deck aviation is still at infancy and will require much more improvements to match Indian, French, and UK carrier programs, to say nothing about matching the USN.

The bias is so strong with this one it's hindering reading abilities

 

[weig2000]

I can't imagine PLAN is trying to cut cost, so the lack of simple safety gears suggest PLAN hasn't done enough carrier operations to know how important the gear is. They might be improving, but PRC deck aviation is still at infancy and will require much more improvements to match Indian, French, and UK carrier programs, to say nothing about matching the USN.

Your knee-jerk reaction is on display.... Well, that's pretty predictable, isn't it?

 

[weig2000]

LOL Too desperate to insult China --> reading comprehension fail

And you also didn't bother to fact-check it either before jumping on board, which confirms that you liked what you (thought you) read, so you ate it all up. No evidence, no proof needed this time.

Gettin' pretty embarrassing, Stoney.

It's a pattern that I have observed in him in other topics too, such as J-20 or Chinese aero-engine. After seeing so many pictures of PLAN working and operating Liaoning, you'd think he would at least get some superficial impression that PLAN adhere to safety procedures pretty seriously. In fact, even if you have read popeye's comments before, you know he was quite complimentary in that regard. You would never get the wrong idea even if you have just done a cursory reading of popeye's comment above.

As I commented before in J-20 thread, Blackstone is either not interested in the in-depth discussions re J-20 on SDF or simply not capable of comprehending those discussions. Instead, he forwarded repeatedly those highly biased or ignorant mainstream media coverage, and believed those opinions have more weights and credibility than the collective wisdom of SDF. He justified his acts with some lofty principles such as "in a free-market of ideas...," blah blah.

It's sad (for him) and hilarious (for the rest of us) that he could not see his shallowness and bias, yet somehow deludes himself into believing he is balanced and objective (presumably because he at times utters certain objections against the "new-cons.")

I've found myself amused by his behaviors on SDF, rather than frustrated initially. This particular post of his is rather revealing. I do hope Blackstone can do some soul-searching.

 

[Yodello]

As an adult, have some self-respect. I wonder how you face your friends and families with such a heart filled with hatred and biasedness. You've become a source of amusement and joke.

 

[SinoSoldier]

I don't see how this vague and tenuous benefit of occasionally training with foreign navies can have a significant enough effect on the overall quality of a navy to overcome hardware inferiority. The PLAN also routinely trains with foreign navies, so either way this point is totally moot.


I'm not sure what principle you are referring to. We are talking about experience with carriers translating into proficiency with carriers, which does not translate into proficiency with destroyers, subs, or minesweepers or any other vessel.

Experience operating carrier strike groups, handling aircraft, honing one's carrier flight tempo, and the countless technicalities involved in maintaining a functioning carrier is of enormous benefit to a navy that wishes to possess some form of projecting power. By drawing on previous battle experiences and/or hard-learnt lessons through training, the Indian Navy could potentially offset whatever technological advantage the Chinese have (which isn't significant given Russia's support to India). There is also talk of India purchasing F-35s, but that would be detracting from our conversation regarding training and experience (rather than technical capability).

There's a difference between a Harrier and MiG-29. The same sailors that learned the skills in the Harrier can not be translated easily to the MiG-29. It's a whole new set of skills that have to be learn again. As a result the Indian sailors so called experiences with the Harriers doesn't make them superior to the Liaoning's sailors working with the J-15s does it? As a matter of fact the Indians are still learning to handle their MiG-29s just as the PLAN are doing with their J-15.

Of course there is a difference between differing aircraft; that was not the point of my argument. The experience with aircraft handling (on deck, etc.), carrier turnaround times, flightops tempo, integration with the rest of the CBG, will does not become obsolete with the induction of aircraft (even more so given that both the Viraat and Liaoning are STOBAR vessels). Adapting to a new fighter plane is simply a matter of training and instruction. Knowing the tricks of the trade pertaining to carrier operations is a different story, and one in which the IN has a clear head start.