CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

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foxmulder_ms

Junior Member
Iron Man said:
Your facetiously superficial comparison of these ships is amusing, but you have failed to understand the intended roles of these ships. One is a small (by carrier standards) CVE while the other is an amphibious assault ship that can carry fighters. Can you turn that LHA into a light carrier in a pinch? Sure, just remove most of the helos and sub in some more F-35s, and you will have something like the picture on top (which I assume is the Giuseppe Garibaldi). But perhaps you can ask yourself before you go to sleep tonight why the USN classifies this ship as an LHA instead of a CVL or CVE. Maybe it has something to do with role. Or not. It's up to your personal opinion, really. One man's battleship is another man's aircraft carrier, after all.
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My comparison is amusing??!, hahaha Pot calling cattle.. :D

It is so funny... I heard that F-35Bs that take off from QE feel more lofty compared ones take off from WASPs..

Right on man right on..

After all, Kuznetsov is a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser. I mean it must be a cruiser since Soviet Navy classified it so.
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
foxmulder_ms said:
My comparison is amusing??!, hahaha Pot calling cattle.. :D

It is so funny... I heard that F-35Bs that take off from QE feel more lofty compared ones take off from WASPs..

Right on man right on..

After all, Kuznetsov is a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser. I mean it must be a cruiser since Soviet Navy classified it so.
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Actually, it's "kettle". Got to get it right if you want to sound snarky for show. :)

Seeing as how F-35s haven't taken off from the QE yet, I'm not sure exactly how "lofty" they feel, but I do know that they won't need to feel "assaulty" on a usual basis, if ever. As for the Kuznetsov, it was classified this way to get around Turkey's Montreux Convention which prohibits carriers of greater than 15,000 tons to transit the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits. I'm surprised you don't know this fact. The rest of the world as well as the Russians think of the Kuznetsov as an aircraft carrier, however. The US doesn't really have a requirement to send carriers into the Black Sea so there is no need to play games with names. In other words an LHA is still an LHA.
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
Iron Man said:
This is a total non-argument. The F-35B is starting trials on the QE NEXT YEAR, and a full air wing of F-35Bs will be on the commissioned QE by 2020.
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Keyword is "will". Let's not count the chicken before it's hatched, hehe.

Iron Man said:
Except that we're not talking about "state of the art", but rather overall capability, which is not the same thing.
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"Most advanced" is state of art, I don't think you can get away with this.

We are talking about technology. If you want to talk about capability, then count WASP in!

Technology or capability, Queen Eliz left a lot to be desired. Many of the "wills" didn't materialize, did it.
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
longmarch said:
Keyword is "will". Let's not count the chicken before it's hatched, hehe.



"Most advanced" is state of art, I don't think you can get away with this.

We are talking about technology. If you want to talk about capability, then count WASP in!

Technology or capability, Queen Eliz left a lot to be desired. Many of the "wills" didn't materialize, did it.
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I think in this case the chickens are coming in for sure, whereas the naval J-31 is still a work of fiction. The QE has not even been handed over to the Royal Navy yet; it won't be commissioned until end of this year or beginning of next year, so the fact that F-35s are not yet on the deck is not exactly some kind of major surprise.

We are NOT talking about technology; that is what you want to talk about. If you scroll back a few pages we have been talking about what carriers are the "most capable", which is a combination of technology and many other factors. As for capability, QE "leaving a lot to be desired" is a matter of perspective. Did she achieve her maximum potential? Certainly not. Does that mean she sucks compared to CV-17? Certainly not.
 
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foxmulder_ms

Junior Member
Iron Man said:
Actually, it's "kettle". Got to get it right if you want to sound snarky for show. :)

Seeing as how F-35s haven't taken off from the QE yet, I'm not sure exactly how "lofty" they feel, but I do know that they won't need to feel "assaulty" on a usual basis, if ever. As for the Kuznetsov, it was classified this way to get around Turkey's Montreux Convention which prohibits carriers of greater than 15,000 tons to transit the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits. I'm surprised you don't know this fact. The rest of the world as well as the Russians think of the Kuznetsov as an aircraft carrier, however. The US doesn't really have a requirement to send carriers into the Black Sea so there is no need to play games with names. In other words an LHA is still an LHA.
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Thanks for the free English lesson.

Also, how can you know what I know or not, your english skillz are scary :) Heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser of you ironman.

The largest of all amphibious warfare ships; resembles a small aircraft carrier; capable of Vertical/Short Take-Off and Landing (V/STOL), Short Take-Off Vertical Landing (STOVL), Vertical Take-Off and Landing (VTOL) tilt-rotor and Rotary Wing (RW) aircraft operations; contains a well deck to support use of Landing Craft, Air Cushion (LCAC) and other watercraft (with exception of the first two LHA(R) class ships, LHA 6 and LHA 7, which have no well deck). LHA 8 will feature a well deck.

Features
Modern U.S. Navy Amphibious Assault Ships project power and maintain presence by serving as the cornerstone of the amphibious ready group (ARG)/expeditionary strike group (ESG). A key element of the Sea Power 21 pillars of Sea Strike and Sea Basing, these ships transport and land elements of the Marine expeditionary unit (MEU) or Marine expeditionary brigade (MEB) with a combination of aircraft and landing craft.

The America-class LHAs and Wasp-class LHDs provide the Marine Corps with a means of ship-to-shore movement by helicopter in addition to movement by landing craft. LHAs (and later LHDs) have been participants in major humanitarian-assistance, occupation and combat operations in which the United States has been involved. Such operations have included participating as launch platforms for Marine Corps expeditionary forces into Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom in 2001 and 2002, Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003 and humanitarian support after the catastrophic Tsunami in 2004. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, two LHDs served as "Harrier carriers," launching an air group of AV-8B attack aircraft against targets inside Iraq. In 2004, LHDs were used to transport thousands of Marines and their equipment to Iraq and Afghanistan for combat operations. Post Hurricane Katrina support was provided in New Orleans by LHD 7 (Iwo Jima) where thousands of police, fire and rescue personnel were hosted onboard during recovery operations and Iwo Jima operated as the central command and control hub.

USS Makin Island (LHD 8) was delivered to the Navy in April 2009 and is the first U.S. Navy amphibious assault ship to be equipped with both gas turbines and an auxiliary propulsion system (APS) instead of steam boilers. The APS uses two induction-type auxiliary propulsion motors (APM) powered from the ship's electrical grid rather than relying on main propulsion engines to power the ship's shaft, which are less efficient at lower speeds. Instead of using its gas turbines, which are less efficient at lower speeds, the ship will be able to use its APS for roughly 75 percent of the time the ship is underway. The entire propulsion and electric system is controlled by a comprehensive machinery control system that also controls and monitors damage control, ballasting and de-ballasting, fuel fill and auxiliary machinery. The machinery control system allows the ship to switch from gas turbine to electric propulsion on the fly. It is fully distributed, accessible from multiple locations, and every console provides full system control and monitoring capabilities of the entire engineering plant.

USS America (LHA 6), along with the future USS Tripoli (LHA 7) are LHD variants optimized for aviation capability. The propulsion plant and electrical distribution and auxiliary systems designed and built for USS Makin Island are also used aboard USS America and USS Tripoli, the first ships in the LHA Replacement Program. USS America was delivered to the U.S. Navy on April 10, 2014 and USS Tripoli is currently under construction at Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII) in Pascagoula, Mississippi and is expected to join the fleet in 2018. LHA 6 and LHA 7, commonly referred to as Flight 0 ships, contain key differences from the LHD class to include: an enlarged hangar deck, enhanced aviation maintenance facilities, increased aviation fuel capacity, additional aviation storerooms, removal of the well deck, and an electronically reconfigurable C4ISR suite. On June 30, 2016, Huntington Ingalls Industries was awarded a contract for planning, advanced engineering and procurement of long lead time material with an option for the detail design and construction of LHA 8, which will be the first Flight I ship, and will reincorporate a well deck to increase operational flexibility. The USS America (LHA 6) class ships replace the original five Tarawa-class LHAs, which have all been decommissioned. USS Belleau Wood (LHA 3) was decommissioned in October 2005, followed by USS Saipan (LHA 2) in April 2007, USS Tarawa (LHA 1) in March 2009, USS Nassau (LHA 4) in March 2011 and USS Peleliu (LHA 5) in March 2015.

Background
Amphibious warships are designed to support the Marine Corps tenets of Operational Maneuver From the Sea (OMFTS) and Ship to Objective Maneuver (STOM). They must be capable of sailing in harm's way and enable rapid combat power buildup ashore in the face of opposition. Because of their inherent capabilities, these ships have been and will continue to be called upon to also support humanitarian and other contingency missions on short notice. The United States maintains the largest and most capable amphibious force in the world.

The Wasp-class LHDs are currently the largest amphibious ships in the world. The lead ship, USS Wasp (LHD 1) was commissioned in July 1989 in Norfolk, Virginia. The delivery of LHA Replacement or LHA(R) America-class ships is the next step in the incremental development of the "Big Deck Amphib." American-class ships are designed to accommodate the Marine Corps' future Air Combat Element (ACE) including F-35B Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) and MV-22 Osprey with additional aviation maintenance capability and increased fuel capacities, while also providing additional cargo stowage capacities and enabling a broader, more flexible Command and Control capability.
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Above is what US NAVY says about their ships. Yep, it is NOT a carrier. LOL. Stop it man really. :D
 
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