Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Equation]

This the Jia Hind version of Jack London?

They're still but hurt about China and CCP advances ahead of them by light years.

 

[antwerpery]

Is there a thread on the overall Sino-Indian Relations instead of just the border situation? I wonder whether Beijing (especially foreign affairs, economists and national security experts with relative easy access to CPC leaders) has long underestimated the Indian threat. If so, why?

India is very very much fucked in the future. Climate change is gonna hit them hard. Not just that, but there's dozens of other factors that mean that it's gonna be lucky if India isn't a failed state by 2050. They are already having 50+ degree heatwaves that kill tens/hundreds of thousands of people every summer, massive flooding and water shortages, along with manmade problems like some of the worst air/water pollution on the planet, an imbalanced gender ratio, racial/religious tensions, massive brain drain, below replacement birth rates and much much more.

You know the standard "CHINA COLLAPSE" narrative that comes up whenever China faces even a minor problem? India is the reality of that, they have basically every problem that China has and a hundred more that China doesn't have, but turned up to 11. In a decade or two, we're gonna see a reality where north India is basically unfit for human habitation without some form of air conditioning during the summer, alongside serve water stress due to the heat, massive flooding during the Monsoon and massive amounts of air pollution during their winter. It's the kind of combo that even developed first world nations would struggle with, let alone a developing nation like India.

 

[RoastGooseHKer]

India is very very much fucked in the future. Climate change is gonna hit them hard. Not just that, but there's dozens of other factors that mean that it's gonna be lucky if India isn't a failed state by 2050. They are already having 50+ degree heatwaves that kill tens/hundreds of thousands of people every summer, massive flooding and water shortages, along with manmade problems like some of the worst air/water pollution on the planet, an imbalanced gender ratio, racial/religious tensions, massive brain drain, below replacement birth rates and much much more.

You know the standard "CHINA COLLAPSE" narrative that comes up whenever China faces even a minor problem? India is the reality of that, they have basically every problem that China has and a hundred more that China doesn't have, but turned up to 11. In a decade or two, we're gonna see a reality where north India is basically unfit for human habitation without some form of air conditioning during the summer, alongside serve water stress due to the heat, massive flooding during the Monsoon and massive amounts of air pollution during their winter. It's the kind of combo that even developed first world nations would struggle with, let alone a developing nation like India.

India is run by the Brahmin caste elites/BJP religious fanatics who are so good in manipulating its populace in geopolitics and internal conflicts. In other words, the Hindu majority is so submissive to the religion that they are willing to anything elites tell them to do. Meanwhile the elites are quite skilled in taking advantage of its neighbour's weakness amid geopolitical headwinds. For example, India struck China in 1962 and 2020 amid the Great Famine and COVID-19 crisis respectively, despite failures. Still, China was not able to recover Southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh) due to U.S. threats of air campaign. India successfully dismembered Pakistan in 1971 amid Soviet defense guarantee and China's political disfunction resulting from the Cultural Revolution. Finally, India still supports Tibetan independence and uses the Tibetan Government in exile as a leverage.

What I am saying is that Indian political elites are quite skilled in fooling its Hindu majority, whilst taking advantage of its neighbor's temporary setbacks. It is not a measurement of success, and I recognise that China is far ahead of India in economic development and defence. However, as a force multiplier for China's adversaries, a Hindu India still bites.

In terms of ideology, religion matters, especially religious fanaticism. CPC manages to unite China today not because of Marxism alone but because of its heavy dose of nationalism based on the memories of China's suffering at the hands of foreign imperial powers plus recent gains in material hard power. Indian national construction is based largely on Hindu supremacy and also same memory of suffering at the hands of British Empire. Ideologically speaking, Indian nationalism had one more important asset compared to those of China: religion. Chinese nationalism is secular, and based largely on victimhood and material performance legitimacy. Hindu nationalism has a heavy dose of religious fanaticism.

At last, India enjoys an extremely favourable geopolitical environment. It has access to Russian oil and weapons, as well as U.S. intel sharing. Both Moscow and DC see New Delhi as a check on a rising China. When Modi tried to assassinate a separatist on U.S. soil, Biden turned a blind eye.

Therefore, I would not underestimate India due to Indian elites' opportunism, Hindu fanaticism, and India's favourable geopolitical position.

 

[RoastGooseHKer]

Anyone who thinks Beijing doesn’t understand India just need to ask why China places such high importance on every single one of its main weapons systems being able to operate on the Tibetan Plateau. Who do you think that is to guard against?

If anything, Beijing gives India too much credit in now thoroughly it prepares to be backstabbed by India. Not that India won’t backstab China, just in terms of how little threat their very best effort will be realistically be able to pose.

Ironically India poses a far bigger headache for China during peace time than it will ever be able to approach in war time. Since their sheer annoyance and shamelessness makes it hard for China to respond to them without lowering its own level.

Chinese strategy for dealing with India is the same as someone dealing with the village idiot. Better to smile and be nice to them than risk accidentally offending them somehow and result in them hurling insults and their own shit and piss at you. You will look bad beating them to a pulp in response, but you could hardly do proportional response with our own shit and piss can you? It would be far cleaner if they came at you with a knife, in which case no one can blame you for putting them down.

Why not wait for the right moment to strike them hard and weaken them for 10-20 years? Indian did weaken Pakistan in 1971 for decades to come. I wonder if such opportunity would arise for China versus India.

 

[Temstar]

In terms of ideology, religion matters, especially religious fanaticism. CPC manages to unite China today not because of Marxism alone but because of its heavy dose of nationalism based on the memories of China's suffering at the hands of foreign imperial powers. Indian national construction is based largely on Hindu supremacy and also same memory of suffering at the hands of British Empire. Ideologically speaking, Indian nationalism had one more important asset compared to those of China: religion. Chinese nationalism is secular, and based largely on victimhood and performance legitimacy. Hindu nationalism has a heavy dose of religious fanaticism.

This may be a strength for internal unity (such as it is) for India but this Akhand Bharat ideology offers nothing for anyone who's not Hindu and thus the strongly India embraces it the more it drives her neighbours away. To such a degree that this is happening:

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And these two are supposed to be enemies.

China is the polar opposite, hence there's zero ideological barriers to things like Community with Shared Future. Any time some sort of Han ultranationalist wants to argue China should not be so friendly and investing in other countries one just needs to point to the slogan on the right half of Tiananmen and tell them it's a founding principle of the country.

The more India is Nehru socialist and equality for all, the better her relation would be with rest of the world at the cost of internal unity. On the other hand the more Modi Akhand Bharat India becomes the more internally unified she is at the cost of isolation from other countries.

China does not have this dilemma.

 

[RoastGooseHKer]

This may be a strength for internal unity (such as it is) for India but this Akhand Bharat ideology offers nothing for anyone who's not Hindu and thus the strongly India embraces it the more it drives her neighbours away. To such a degree that this is happening:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And these two are supposed to be enemies.

China is the polar opposite, hence there's zero ideological barriers to things like Community with Shared Future. Any time some sort of Han ultranationalist wants to argue China should not be so friendly and investing in other countries one just needs to point to the slogan on the right half of Tiananmen and tell them it's a founding principle of the country.

The more India is Nehru socialist and equality for all, the better her relation would be with rest of the world at the cost of internal unity. On the other hand the more Modi Akhand Bharat India becomes the more internally unified she is at the cost of isolation from other countries.

China does not have this dilemma.

Actually I do see lots of complains within China regarding the CPC being too kind in paying off foreigners to simply like China. You are taking about free college attendance for foreign students, unilateral visa-free policy, whilst Chinese students have to face Gaokao to simply attend college. Meanwhile, minorities, selected foreigners and women have far more privilege than Han Chinese men when it comes to equal opportunity in college attendance and job market. Minority privilege is one thing that the PRC inherited from the USSR. In the U.S., it is called affirmative action. Trump/MAGA calls it woke. It seems like PRC, USSR, and other socialist countries REALLY overdrove their affirmative actions in the name of political legitimacy that it eventually became a serious reverse discrimination against men of the majority ethnicities, especially those from rural areas and underprivileged families.

I am starting to sound like a MAGA (which I do not necessarily agree) myself. Full stop for me Sorry!

 

[ansy1968]

Actually I do see lots of complains within China regarding the CPC being too kind in paying off foreigners to simply like China. You are taking about free college attendance for foreign students, unilateral visa-free policy, whilst Chinese students have to face Gaokao to simply attend college. Meanwhile, minorities, selected foreigners and women have far more privilege than Han Chinese men when it comes to equal opportunity in college attendance and job market. Minority privilege is one thing that the PRC inherited from the USSR. In the U.S., it is called affirmative action. Trump/MAGA calls it woke. It seems like PRC, USSR, and other socialist countries REALLY overdrove their affirmative actions in the name of political legitimacy that it eventually became a serious reverse discrimination against men of the majority ethnicities, especially those from rural areas and underprivileged families.

I am starting to sound like a MAGA (which I do not necessarily agree) myself. Full stop for me Sorry!

Are you a fan of eating Ku Gua or bitter melon, its a common dish among Han Chinese especially stir fry with beef. So that's your answer my friend, it's in our gene, we have to cross multiple obstacle to attained fulfilment.

 

[Biscuits]

Actually I do see lots of complains within China regarding the CPC being too kind in paying off foreigners to simply like China. You are taking about free college attendance for foreign students, unilateral visa-free policy, whilst Chinese students have to face Gaokao to simply attend college. Meanwhile, minorities, selected foreigners and women have far more privilege than Han Chinese men when it comes to equal opportunity in college attendance and job market. Minority privilege is one thing that the PRC inherited from the USSR. In the U.S., it is called affirmative action. Trump/MAGA calls it woke. It seems like PRC, USSR, and other socialist countries REALLY overdrove their affirmative actions in the name of political legitimacy that it eventually became a serious reverse discrimination against men of the majority ethnicities, especially those from rural areas and underprivileged families.

I am starting to sound like a MAGA (which I do not necessarily agree) myself. Full stop for me Sorry!

I don't think affermative action is that comparable to China's normalisation for people from poorer provinces. AA is based on your race, while someone from Qinghai or Inner Mongolia is basically living in a whole another country than someone in Shanghai. They even need a permit to work and move there. Even with normalisation, socially underdeveloped areas don't outperform or even match the main Chinese areas.

And a western style quota for women doesn't exist. There used to be a limit on women in some military degrees, but this worked against women and was removed around covid. It is not different than women currently being banned from joining US SEALs, except it's a cap rather than a blanket ban.

Imho there is a (mostly) fair exchange of privileges and services from the developed east to the historically underdeveloped regions. It's not really avoidable when you have an EU sized country where some are Germanies and some are Romanias and Ukraines. The former need to give academic and economic benefits, opportunities for the latter to develop, the latter is in return solving labor intensive tasks for the former.

 

[RoastGooseHKer]

Are you a fan of eating Ku Gua or bitter melon, its a common dish among Han Chinese especially stir fry with beef. So that's your answer my friend, it's in our gene, we have to cross multiple obstacle to attained fulfilment.

I hope there's equal opportunity and merit in terms of eating Ku Gua (bitter melon), and everyone having to go through same obstacle to attain fulfillment, not one group of folks having to go through less obstacles whilst the rest have to.