Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Nutrient]

Mistake, sorry. The comment wasn't nuked.

 

[solarz]

I live in Europe and i'm not very optimistic that they can control things here. Its all very lackadaisical here. Just a few travel warnings, telling people to wash their hands, don't touch your face and keep your distance. They have established a hotline that you can call if you think you have COVID 19 and a few companies told their employees to work from home and that's more or less it.

You still have people traveling and football matches, concerts and other events are all going ahead.

Same here in Canada.

Some bus drivers wanted to wear masks to work, and management denied them, saying masks were not effective at protecting them. Even brought in a doctor to "educate" them.

 

[vesicles]

People calling for a ban on exotic animal markets in China are making two major mistakes.

Firstly you are buying to the western MSM manufactured, racially motivated smear campaign against China.

People have been eating wild animals since there were people. Let’s not forget the 2009 American Swine flu and many bird flu outbreaks over the years.

And no, it is not just people in ‘backwards’ communities that eat wild animals in this day and age as the western MSM like to imply with its disproportionate and highly biased focus on the exotic animal meat reporting.

People, rich people at that, proudly hunt and eat wild animals all over Europe and America. Rabbit, duck, geese, pheasant, deer, wild boar and countless other wild animals and hunted and eaten by the same westerners who are trying to pain the Chinese as uncouth and unreasonable for daring to buy their dinner from a market, when they would shoot and eat wild animals who most certainly does not come with a food safety certification.

So long as people continue to eat animals, then there will remain the chance that a virus that originated from animals would jump species. The obsession focus of the western MSM on the seafood market has nothing to do with science or safety and everything to do with victim blaming to try and create the narrative that China somehow ‘deserve’ this outbreak.

Secondly, just look at the war on drugs. How’s prohibition working on that front?

And yes, exotic meats are not addictive like hard drugs such as cocaine or heroin, but it is very similar to ‘softer’ drugs like cannabis in that it is a lifestyle choice. OTOH, highly addictive substances like alcohol and nicotine are legally sold all the time. So legalisation has zero correlation to the additiveness of something.

If we look at the cannabis case study, legalisation has massively reduced crime, improved safety and even generates tax revenue and boosts local economies.

As such, the key to combating the issue of exotic meat trade and consumption should be not prohibition, which would only drive such practices underground, which would make the health and hygiene dangers far worse instead of better; but instead commercialisation, reduction in price and more stringent food safety standards is what real world case studies prove is most effective at reducing the risks from such consumption habits.

However, I suspect that for some or most of those who loudly demand a ban and ridiculously disproportionate punishment for offenders; at least part, if not the whole reason for your stance is an emotional reaction to the aforementioned Western MSM smear campaign and you somehow think that banning exotic animal meats would make the western MSM stop making disparaging remarks about China

If that is the case, I have some truth for you, no society is or can ever be perfect. So long as the western MSM is determined to find something, anything to attack China with, they will find it. Nothing China does will ever change that. Not even total capitulation to the west.

No matter how far China goes to appease such people, it will still never ever be remotely enough.

The only effective response is to give zero what the west thinks and instead only look at what is most beneficial for China. When China is rich and strong enough, what the western MSM thinks or says will matter as much as what the Indian media thinks or says about China today.

It’s not actually the eating part that is bad. It’s the market, where huge amount of unregulated wild animals is kept.

A large amount of wild animals living together give the various viruses more opportunities to sample among different animals to find their most suitable hosts.

This kind of situation doesn’t occur with west-style hunting, when typically hunters get one or two game animals at a time. These animals are typically slaughtered immediately by licensed butchers with strict sanitation requirements for the meat and their equipment. As such, even an animal is infected, the chance of the contagion spreading is very slim.

 

[AssassinsMace]

They want to believe the coronavirus was created in a lab because it makes Chinese evil to do such a thing plus it got loose which follows their narrative the Chinese are irresponsible and incompetent. The irony is when you're evil, you're able to accomplish anything hence why everyone should be afraid, but every time else... you're too inferior to do anything on your own.

 

[localizer]

Same here in Canada.

Some bus drivers wanted to wear masks to work, and management denied them, saying masks were not effective at protecting them. Even brought in a doctor to "educate" them.

They're trying to show us Chinese that we're doing it wrong with everyone wearing masks. They can do it better they believe. We shall see.

 

[supercat]

There are 40 confirmed cases and 22 deaths in China on Mar. 8 (table 1). There are 4 cases and 1 death outside Hubei province (table 3). All 4 cases outside Hubei were in Gansu province and all 4 are imported. Of the 67 imported cases, 33 are in Gansu. Maybe Gansu has a lot of Hui people and some of them returned from religious schools in Iran recently?

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[supercat]

On Mar. 8, there are 58,600 cured cases and 19,016 existing cases (chart 4).

 

[plawolf]

N

It’s not actually the eating part that is bad. It’s the market, where huge amount of unregulated wild animals is kept.

A large amount of wild animals living together give the various viruses more opportunities to sample among different animals to find their most suitable hosts.

This kind of situation doesn’t occur with west-style hunting, when typically hunters get one or two game animals at a time. These animals are typically slaughtered immediately by licensed butchers with strict sanitation requirements for the meat and their equipment. As such, even an animal is infected, the chance of the contagion spreading is very slim.

And banning exotic meats would make the sanitation situation worse, not better.

Part of the appeal of wanting live exotic animals is to prove freshness, which is important because these markets are in the grey zone of legality already, so people are not sure about how safe the meat would be if they didn’t see the live animal from which it came.

But with commercialisation, that worry goes away. How many people in China demand live chickens, pigs and cows etc to be killed and butchered at the supermarket to assure them of the freshness of the meat?

As for the risk of having lots of different species of animals all living in close proximity and mixing, well have you heard of a thing called a farm? Especially the much converted organic kind?

The issue with exotic meat markets isn’t the co-mingling of different species, it’s the fact that a lot of the animals are either poached wild animals or farmed in underground farms that are more concerned with not appearing to look like a farm than animal welfare and basic hygiene.

Banning the trade in such animals without addressing the key issue of demand will just cause prices to skyrocket, which in turn would encourage more rampant poaching and illegal farms to go deeper underground, resulting in far more risk of virus outbreaks.

As for western hunting habits, well again I think you have a far too rose tainted romanticised idea of what happens in real life.

When hunters bring in their kills, they just bring them to your normal butchers who then just do basic cleaning and butchering work to make the meat ready for sale. These are not fancy laboratories that does any kind of field testing to see if the meat is contaminated with diseases. The only hygiene benefit you would get from such prep work is you shouldn't get food poisoning from basic everyday bacteria like e.coli. But if a hunter brought in migrating ducks or grease he shot that has bird flu or Covid19, no butcher will ever spot that and the meat would be sold just the same.

You are trying to make distinctions where none exist to distinguish between two cultural and eating habits that are in essence exactly the same.

In fact, in my opinion, it is far more likely that past bird flu outbreaks in western nations were the result of hunting rather than from wild birds mingling with domesticated ones.

Commercial farms handling birds are required by law to perform regular testing for all the common diseases, which is why they get detected in commercial farms, at which point the animals are all destroyed and any already sold are tracked and recalled. All because of commercialisation.

OTOH, it would just take an unlucky Hunter to shoot an infected migrating bird and it goes straight into the food chain.

Western MSM has little interest in going after the hunting trade because it is overwhelmingly the rich and powerful for can afford to hunt in the west, and many of them own the MSM.

 

[plawolf]

29 min ago

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so the US more than doubled since Yesterday at 6:50 PM


by the way four-hundred plus was the number in Wuhan area when it was quarantined

19 dead form 484 cases gives a mortality rate of 3.93%!

Unless America has a far deadlier new strain than everywhere else, that points to a vast undetected/reported infected population size.

One has to wonder if it is pure co-incidence that Trump just expelled over 60 Chinese journalists.

 

[free_6ix9ine]

N


And banning exotic meats would make the sanitation situation worse, not better.

Part of the appeal of wanting live exotic animals is to prove freshness, which is important because these markets are in the grey zone of legality already, so people are not sure about how safe the meat would be if they didn’t see the live animal from which it came.

But with commercialisation, that worry goes away. How many people in China demand live chickens, pigs and cows etc to be killed and butchered at the supermarket to assure them of the freshness of the meat?

As for the risk of having lots of different species of animals all living in close proximity and mixing, well have you heard of a thing called a farm? Especially the much converted organic kind?

The issue with exotic meat markets isn’t the co-mingling of different species, it’s the fact that a lot of the animals are either poached wild animals or farmed in underground farms that are more concerned with not appearing to look like a farm than animal welfare and basic hygiene.

Banning the trade in such animals without addressing the key issue of demand will just cause prices to skyrocket, which in turn would encourage more rampant poaching and illegal farms to go deeper underground, resulting in far more risk of virus outbreaks.

As for western hunting habits, well again I think you have a far too rose tainted romanticised idea of what happens in real life.

When hunters bring in their kills, they just bring them to your normal butchers who then just do basic cleaning and butchering work to make the meat ready for sale. These are not fancy laboratories that does any kind of field testing to see if the meat is contaminated with diseases. The only hygiene benefit you would get from such prep work is you shouldn't get food poisoning from basic everyday bacteria like e.coli. But if a hunter brought in migrating ducks or grease he shot that has bird flu or Covid19, no butcher will ever spot that and the meat would be sold just the same.

You are trying to make distinctions where none exist to distinguish between two cultural and eating habits that are in essence exactly the same.

In fact, in my opinion, it is far more likely that past bird flu outbreaks in western nations were the result of hunting rather than from wild birds mingling with domesticated ones.

Commercial farms handling birds are required by law to perform regular testing for all the common diseases, which is why they get detected in commercial farms, at which point the animals are all destroyed and any already sold are tracked and recalled. All because of commercialisation.

OTOH, it would just take an unlucky Hunter to shoot an infected migrating bird and it goes straight into the food chain.

Western MSM has little interest in going after the hunting trade because it is overwhelmingly the rich and powerful for can afford to hunt in the west, and many of them own the MSM.

What are you talking about dude? You can't compare hunting to wild animal markets. Sure there is a chance of a virus jumping from a animal that was killed by a hunter, but that risk is way lower than having a wild animal markets where you mix hundreds of different types of species together in a crowded space where there are thousands of people coming in and out daily. The chances of a virus jumping from animal to person is way greater in such a setting.

Stop defending stupid practices like eating wild animals. There is a reason why out of the 5 pandemics, SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, Ebola, and COVID-19, 2 of them came from China.