Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[AndrewS]

Yep. China should have ramped up production even more faster than it already has.

The US 300 mln is nothing in front of China's population. So in order for China to catch up with it, it should have worked 4 times faster than the US.

Now it will have a problem with the US opening up and China remaining closed (China borders I mean, this is important for foreign investment)

China dropped the ball on vaccine production

I agree vaccine production in China should have been ramped up even faster.

But whilst the US may be fully vaccinated, it would be foolish for them to open up the borders to other countries with widespread virus circulation who haven't been fully vaccinated and are doubtless harbouring new variants.

Most of the other *safe* countries are in Asia, but how many people want to go on a 10+ hour flight between Asia and America?

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The Indian double-mutation variant now accounts for over 60% of new cases in the epicentre of Mumbai.
And we can expect to see the same trajectory in other Indian cities.

We also have the first reports in the UK/US of the Indian variant, which is supposedly more infectious and also more able to escape current vaccines.

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[taxiya]

I am saying as a senior bureaucrat Gao Fu has the responsibility to state the facts but at the same time choose his words wisely so opponents wouldn't take his words out of context.

you can't punish an honest scientist and technocrat for the fault of some insidious and cunning propagandists (western mass media). The bottom line is that it is not his fault that his words were twisted.

 

[taxiya]

Sure, just let any scientist speak their mind to the media and let the Western media pick and choose their words to twist, like Chinese morons (that are scientists) that said bats must be the host of the virus and must have jump to humans from the Wuhan wet market before any investigation has started. In this case, a top Chinese scientist that spoke in such way that even Chinese believe the Chinese vaccines are ineffective and refuse to take it.

Didn't some of you complain Chinese PR sucks?

What you are saying is what the western media presented by deliberately twisting the words. Yet, you are angry at Gao Fu? That is like, a bully accused your child of starting the fight and you blame your own child of not being able to prevent that fight from happening. That is more like blaming the victim.

 

[KYli]

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you can't punish an honest scientist and technocrat for the fault of some insidious and cunning propagandists (western mass media). The bottom line is that it is not his fault that his words were twisted.

It isn't the first time his words got twisted. Why other high profile scientists and technocrats didn't get their words twisted like he did. And Gao Fu is also the one who tried and pushed very hard for the Chinese government to grant Pfizer approval. I am not against granting approval to Pfizer but I do think Gao Fu is getting too cozy with those foreign experts and big corporations as head of Chinese CDC.

 

[voyager1]

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It isn't the first time his words got twisted. Why other high profile scientists and technocrats didn't get their words twisted like he did. And Gao Fu is also the one who tried and pushed very hard for the Chinese government to grant Pfizer approval. I am not against granting approval to Pfizer but I do think Gao Fu is getting too cozy with those foreign experts and big corporations as head of Chinese CDC.

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is pretty good though. I dont see why as a scientist he wouldn't recommend it.

Now if the politicians dont want to approve it for the bad optics thats another story. So, I would say he did his job by acting in a scientific manner

 

[taxiya]

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还是别贬低人家的疫苗了吧。说了好几个月别人疫苗不行。这两天高福出来说国产疫苗效果不好，要和别的疫苗混着用，还真不适应。

First of all, English please, it is a English forum. For the rest of this forum I will translate your words that I am arguing against.

"During the past few days, Gao Fu said that Chinese vaccines' efficacy are not good, they must be mixed with others, (I am) not used to hear that."

Second of all, why are you keep on repeating the western narrative? When did Gao Fu said that Chinese vaccines are not good? Gao Fu said mixing different vaccines may improve efficacy. That is the idea that UK and Russia looked into some time ago. Do you remember that UK was investigating of combining AZ vaccine with Sputnik 5 to improve its efficacy in its early time? It was only stopped the idea due to political interference? Does that mean that UK acknowledged that AZ was bad?

Pfizer is now talking about a 3rd boost shot after 9 months of first 2 shots, does that also somehow mean that Pfizer is acknowledging mRNA is bad?

Please, don't jump from one extreme end to the other. First, all west are evil, then all Chinese PR sucks. I don't think anybody can meet your demand.

 

[KYli]

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is pretty good though. I dont see why as a scientist he wouldn't recommend it.

Now if the politicians dont want to approve it for the bad optics thats another story. So, I would say he did his job by acting in a scientific manner

As the head of Chinese CDC, Gao Fu should also consider by granting approval for Pfizer might dampen the Chinese people's confidence in Chinese vaccines. There are so much misinformation about Chinese vaccines within Chinese internet that granting approval to Pfizer would further flame the rumors. As the Chinese government has no plan to include Pfizer to its free vaccines offerings, there is no hurry for approving the Pfizer vaccine. It can wait a couple more months til more Chinese people got vaccinated so Chinese government doesn't need to fight more misinformation.

 

[voyager1]

As the head of Chinese CDC, Gao Fu should also consider by granting approval for Pfizer might dampen the Chinese people's confidence in Chinese vaccines. There are so much misinformation about Chinese vaccines within Chinese internet that granting approval to Pfizer would further flame the rumors. As the Chinese government has no plan to include Pfizer to its free vaccines offerings, there is no hurry for approving the Pfizer vaccine. It can wait a couple more months til more Chinese people got vaccinated so Chinese government doesn't need to fight more misinformation.

wasn't the misinformation for the Pfizer vaccine originated by the Chinese State media though?

Granted, at that stage the mRNA vaccine was indeed rushed and didn't have the historical background (as the other vaccines) to prove its safety. So from what I understand the Chinese State Media criticized it a lot in part because of safety concerns (reasonable) and because of political reasons.

So the distrust the Chinese citizens have on it is IMO an own goal by the Chinese Media.

I maintain my opinion, that his position must be strictly scientific and technocratic in nature. If the upper elechons of China's leadership dont want the vaccine for their own reasons then they shouldn't involve the CDC, I am sure they can find other ways to secretly ban it.

 

[taxiya]

Just going through a dozen of Muslim forums, I can see many Muslims buy into the Xinjiang genocide propaganda especially those who residing in Western countries. Although they might still be minority at the moment but in the long term that might change.

There are more than just western led narrative but the western led narrative is still the dominated one. China BRI just needs to deal with the ruling elites. Beside China is still viewed postively in most developing world but the Western media and government are trying to chipping away that by spreading misinformation such as Xinjiang genocide lie. I never say China has been alienated by the world. You keep jumping to the conclusion. I am saying the Chinese government, bureaucrats and media suck at propaganda and PR.

No amount of PR work can change that. China can't, neither can the west or anybody. So I say, don't bother too much if these people buy into the propaganda or not because these people want to believe, they are not reasonable.

If you live in a multi-religious, multi-ethnic community, you will know that people tend to defend their kind regardless the truth. People of kinship would defend their kin even if he/she is the guilty one. "打冤家" was a common phenomenon in some part of southern China, while Muslims were known in China to be more common in fighting other group of people for their own without respect to law and legal procedures. We also know that during the recent Balkan wars neighbors turning against one another based on ethnic lines.

These things are there for thousands of years that is why I said "no amount of PR can change that".

 

[KYli]

wasn't the misinformation for the Pfizer vaccine originated by the Chinese State media though?

Granted, at that stage the mRNA vaccine was indeed rushed and didn't have the historical background (as thebother vaccines) to prove its safety. So from what I understand the Chinese State Media criticized it a lot in part because of safety concerns (reasonable) and because of political reasons.

So the distrust the Chinese citizens have on it is IMO an own goal by the Chinese Media.

I maintain my opinion, that his position must be strictly scientific and technocratic in nature. If the upper elechons of China's leadership dont want the vaccine for their own reasons then they shouldn't involve the CDC, I am sire they can find ways to secretly ban it.

I am not talking about the misinformation for the Pfizer vaccine but the misinformation from the Western media that the Pfizer vaccine is way superior than the Chinese vaccines. By approving Pfizer, some Chinese would view that the Chinese government doesn't have confidence in its own vaccines.

And too many scientists and technocrats have previously advocated in the name of science but ultimately almost doom the Chinese technological progress. For example, nuclear power plants, it is lucky that the Chinese leader has the foresight to invest in its own nuclear technology Hualong rather than listening to those scientists and experts to go all in for the Westinghouse AP1000. There are countless example of so many Chinese scientists have tendency to worship the Western superiority without thinking through in the long term.