Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Thanks for clearing it up.
My information is what I can actually read. I dont know chinese, so the most I can do is translate some websites but thats not much, and most of the chinese websites are limited in functionality and I have to download their app, to see all their content, which is not available in my country.

China should seriously up their media game, I cant even read detailed up-to-date information on their vaccines in an English based website

BTW nothing personal on their capabilities, that was my observation based on the sources I have available which is why I started my previous post with "From what I know ..."

Anyway, because it seems you know more about it, do you know the status of these 2 vaccines? What Phase trials (II, III ?), what is their production capacity, where are they doing their tests (foreign countries, or domestically), when is the estimate day of completing the trials and start mass producing them?

About the "media game", I don't see a chance for China in western countries if the people are "brainwashed" with negative image of China for hundreds of years ever since the defeat of China in 1848. So I don't see a point to get in the game. This sounds pessimistic but IMO closer to the reality. Just dig into the Chinese history for a reference, it took Chinese several major defeats since 1848 at the hand of European powers before Chinese accepted the fact that the west was more advanced in technology, industry, military and finally institutions. I don't think majority of westerners would do any better in changing their attitude without a series of major event (I mean defeat) than the Chinese did in the 19th century. We are all humans, so we are equally dumb.:(

It is my mistake that I some how get the idea that you are oversea Chinese, so I assumed that you can read Chinese news and follow them. I apologize for getting personal. But by no means was I intended to attack you, more of teasing. :p

As of the progress. I don't have more information. Early report said that the trail is ongoing but without specifics. I will post in this thread if any new information comes up.

Walvax is the most advanced. It was actually one of the earliest vaccines in intial phase I trials around the world and signed a deal with mexico back in July of last year. I think from a risk perspective at the time the government decided to prioritize sinopharm, sinovac, and cansino. They did reformulate it twice so they ran two phase 1 trials in sequence. It entered into Phase II this year in January. Interestingly, the factory to produce walvax's vaccine is already up and running, so ramp up should be pretty quick if the vaccine is in fact successful.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Walvax is the most advanced. It was actually one of the earliest vaccines in intial phase I trials around the world and signed a deal with mexico back in July of last year. I think from a risk perspective at the time the government decided to prioritize sinopharm, sinovac, and cansino. They did reformulate it twice so they ran two phase 1 trials in sequence. It entered into Phase II this year in January. Interestingly, the factory to produce walvax's vaccine is already up and running, so ramp up should be pretty quick if the vaccine is in fact successful.
Walvax seems to be a part of the program from Military Medicine Academy (MMA).

See this link of registration
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. The secondary sponsor is MMA.

Walvax is a company responsible for the production and front-end work like trails and production. It is like Pfizer, while MMA is like BioNtech the researcher. Or CanSino and MMA.
 
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PiSigma

"the engineer"

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
These vaccines are a great opportunity for China. Normally the country would need 30 or even more years to start building an international reputation about quality products and science but with this situation it now has a chance to improve its reputation dramatically if its vaccines work and they save some of the poorer countries from collapse.

IMO, Chinese gov should start heavily subsiding its companies to dramatically increase production capacity. What is a 2-3 billion dollars subsidies in front of such reputational boost for a scientific major power. Just write is as a diplomatic/PR costs on the gov budget and be done with it.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
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It seems that Serbia is taking this opportunity to get a new type of business/industry for the long term. It is also interesting to see UAE being active in not only diversifying its economy but also its political alignment. We know UAE was a progressive country with good relationship with China, but now it is furthering its relationship with Serbia, an unusually move among gulf countries.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
These vaccines are a great opportunity for China. Normally the country would need 30 or even more years to start building an international reputation about quality products and science but with this situation it now has a chance to improve its reputation dramatically if its vaccines work and they save some of the poorer countries from collapse.

IMO, Chinese gov should start heavily subsiding its companies to dramatically increase production capacity. What is a 2-3 billion dollars subsidies in front of such reputational boost for a scientific major power. Just write is as a diplomatic/PR costs on the gov budget and be done with it.
Not only that, we know Beiden is going to flood the world with newly printed USDs out of thin air. China's dollar savings would be wasted if China does not spend them now.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
It seems that Serbia is taking this opportunity to get a new type of business/industry for the long term. It is also interesting to see UAE being active in not only diversifying its economy but also its political alignment. We know UAE was a progressive country with good relationship with China, but now it is furthering its relationship with Serbia, an unusually move among gulf countries.

This was the brillance of Chinese vaccine distribution. UAE, Serbia, Brazil will all become COVID exporting powerhouses, conducting their own vaccine diplomacy. An attack on chinese vaccines is now perceived as an attack on the vaccine technologies of UAE, Serbia, Brazil. I'm hoping we can get Indonesia's vaccine exports up as well to help serve as the ASEAN solution. Sinopharm is already seen as an "Arab solution" backed by Chinese technology across multiple countries in the middle east. In fact, I would rather increase donations of chinese vaccines through alliance countries as a tier 2 track against US meddling. The stronger our vaccine alliance becomes, the harder it becomes to talk shit about it. In fact, I would pay to have Sinopharm set up a factory in the Czech republic to manufacture BBIBP-Corv to serve the European market. Give others the credit and they will become the biggest defenders of the product.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
This was the brillance of Chinese vaccine distribution. UAE, Serbia, Brazil will all become COVID exporting powerhouses, conducting their own vaccine diplomacy. An attack on chinese vaccines is now perceived as an attack on the vaccine technologies of UAE, Serbia, Brazil. I'm hoping we can get Indonesia's vaccine exports up as well to help serve as the ASEAN solution. Sinopharm is already seen as an "Arab solution" backed by Chinese technology across multiple countries in the middle east. In fact, I would rather increase donations of chinese vaccines through alliance countries as a tier 2 track against US meddling. The stronger our vaccine alliance becomes, the harder it becomes to talk shit about it. In fact, I would pay to have Sinopharm set up a factory in the Czech republic to manufacture BBIBP-Corv to serve the European market. Give others the credit and they will become the biggest defenders of the product.
Exactly thats why China is in advantage vs US. US will go zero sum game and keep production at home, while China will play the win-win game so that the partner country will be as involved as China in making the chinese vaccines a success.
So the strategy here is that China picks 1 or 2 important nations per region and makes deals with them to build factoris there.

(Note that is from casual knowledge and there might be some inaccuracies)
Latin America - Brazil
Middle East - UAE/Turkey?
Africa - Some countries but I dont know exactly which ones
Europe - Serbia/Hungary?
ASEAN - Indonesia

So after all these countries ramp up production of chinese vaccines and start exporting it to their own region this will be a win-win.
The regional partner wins from gaining influence in its own region by donating/selling vaccines. And China wins because it is extremely fast at spreading its vaccines around the world, it gains a good reputation for saving lives, for being a scientific major power, and for being the only major country helping during this crisis.

And this also brings these regional partners(wanna-be semi-hegemons) closer to China as well because they can see that by helping China gain world wide influence, China is ready to leave some regional influence for them to increase their regional standing.

This is a winning hand for China
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Exactly thats why China is in advantage vs US. US will go zero sum game and keep production at home, while China will play the win-win game so that the partner country will be as involved as China in making the chinese vaccines a success.
So the strategy here is that China picks 1 or 2 important nations per region and makes deals with them to build factoris there.

(Note that is from casual knowledge and there might be some inaccuracies)
Latin America - Brazil
Middle East - UAE/Turkey?
Africa - Some countries but I dont know exactly which ones
Europe - Serbia/Hungary?
ASEAN - Indonesia

So after all these countries ramp up production of chinese vaccines and start exporting it to their own region this will be a win-win.
The regional partner wins from gaining influence in its own region by donating/selling vaccines. And China wins because it is extremely fast at spreading its vaccines around the world, it gains a good reputation for saving lives, for being a scientific major power, and for being the only major country helping during this crisis.

And this also brings these regional partners(wanna-be semi-hegemons) closer to China as well because they can see that by helping China gain world wide influence, China is ready to leave some regional influence for them to increase their regional standing.

This is a winning hand for China

Egypt and Morocco have production licenses lined up, but they can't get their factories up and running fast enough. if I was China I would just ship them as much equipment as possible to get the lines running. Turkey seems to be content with just buying chinese vaccines, which is kind of strange as they have the industrial capabilities to produce it themselves. I'm not fully a fan of the fact they have ordered 150 million doses, sure its great endorsement but those could also be broken apart into smaller shipments for other countries. I guess thats a first world problem now for us to complain about how greedy certain countries with chinese vaccines. Brazil, Turkey, and Indonesia now have about orders for 500 million doses of CoronaVac alone.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Egypt and Morocco have production licenses lined up, but they can't get their factories up and running fast enough. if I was China I would just ship them as much equipment as possible to get the lines running. Turkey seems to be content with just buying chinese vaccines, which is kind of strange as they have the industrial capabilities to produce it themselves. I'm not fully a fan of the fact they have ordered 150 million doses, sure its great endorsement but those could also be broken apart into smaller shipments for other countries. I guess thats a first world problem now for us to complain about how greedy certain countries with chinese vaccines. Brazil, Turkey, and Indonesia now have about orders for 500 million doses of CoronaVac alone.
Brazil, Turkey and Indonesia are buying bulk ingredients and do the filling and packing themselves. Turkey has its own factory to do it. Which is great for Sinovac as it has 2 billions doses of ingredients annually already but its factories can only achieve 2 billions doses of filling by June. Chile probably is the biggest buyer of Sinovac vaccines at the moment.
 
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