COMAC C919

Orthan said:

Russia and the UAE will jointly design a new civilian aircraft. What do you think this means to the C919 and even the C929, since C929 is a joint project with russia?

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Russia can design all they want . But the question is will it sale?
Without large captive market, the experience show Russian design is not that successful. Competing against duopoly Russia has no chance not sure if they have reciprocating agreement with FAA that is another road block they have to overcome.

With large domestic market China venture into narrow body jetliner is almost sure fire success

MC-21, the base of the proposed UAE/Russian JV, is the Russian C919, both new comers to the game.

Besides money, UAE has nothing to offer. If UAE manages to get other (Arab Gulf) countries to support an Arabic technology buildup, then this plane can have a big market (population + area) to cover.

The certifications from FAA and EASA are prerequisite for any plane to fly over or land and take off from USA and EU. They are not a must for other countries. However many non-US/EU countries only accept planes to operate over their airspace that get FAA and EASA certifications because most countries simply have no expertise to do that job. It is the same as the world ship classification agencies.

What CAAC got from FAA is cross-certification. That means CAAC certify C919 on behalf of FAA. That means when CAAC says C919 is qualified, it is qualified in any countries that accept FAA certification.

Now, back to MC-21, Russia does not have such deal as CAAC-FAA. In current and foreseeable future the chance of Federal Air Transport Agency (Russia) to cut a deal with FAA or EASA is near zero for well-known reasons. In this situation, the air corridors that MC-21 can fly is quite limited, this will greatly reduce its market.

Essentially, these certification agencies are like currencies, countries may switch from Dollar to Euro to RMB, but who is going to switch to Ruble?

MC-21 may be a good plane in technical terms, but it just don't have the political, economical and marketing environment to compete with C919 which itself is already facing strong market leaders like Boeing and AB.

MC-21 is similar to Su-57, grabbing some guy with a deeper pocket to survive. We will have to wait and see.

Russia knows that China will drop them instantly when they reached parity in know how and experience - the same way it happened in the military aerospace sector.

Pmichael said:

Russia knows that China will drop them instantly when they reached parity in know how and experience - the same way it happened in the military aerospace sector.

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But in a commercial jet what Russia can offer in terms of experience? They are new comers themselves. Unlike in a military jet situation, here you can purchase engines or other off-the-shelf products and have US/European firms involved.

UAC is still a league (maybe even several ones) above whatever China has in the civil sector. Ambitions can't replace decades long experience.
And looking at the delays and problems of the C919, going alone for an even more complex project appeared to be risky for everyone related to the C929 project.

Pmichael said:

Russia knows that China will drop them instantly when they reached parity in know how and experience - the same way it happened in the military aerospace sector.

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I am not sure about that. If both sides are convinced that "together is better than alone", I don't see anyone dropping anyone. The example is right in front of us, Boeing is international collaboration including RR of UK (at least) with Boeing being the lead, AB is a collaboration of many EU and US companies with EU being the lead. What makes it impossible that China and Russia not doing the same? Except if they are crazy enough to think either one of them is able to "beat" the world single-handed.

MC21 and C919 were two projects Russia and China started independently, they try separately to market them does NOT mean they will not sincerely collaborate on CR929. If that works well, there will be CR939.

I don't see why "Russia dumping China or China dumping Russia" warrants any serious consideration at this moment or in the near future. It is more of a wishful thinking and jealousy of some westerners.

You need to explain me the wishful thinking and jealousy part.

Pmichael said:

You need to explain me the wishful thinking and jealousy part.

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dive and rule? That is the part. This "part" has been a fashion among many western medias such as "National Interest", "economics", "FT" and "the diplomat" and more. The "fashion" was at its height during the early days of Ukrainian and Syrian crisis. It has subsided in recent months though but continued in Korean matters such as "NK approaches Russia for alternative than China" or "Russia delay UN resolution agreed by US and China". If you follow these publications in the last two years, you probably will see what I mean.

The basic idea of all these is wishing to put a wedge between China and Russia at any opportunity. It is a basic human instinct, one will be jealous of others getting closer than with oneself.

The first prototype of the C919, registered 10101, has resumed flight tests since arriving at CFTE in Yanliang, near Xi'an, on November 10th. Two were carried out on 23 and 24 November each lasting more than two hours.

No. 02 is rolling