Chinese USV Development Thread

[tokenanalyst]

"Sea Wing" 1000-mini underwater glider completed delivery​

Recently, two "Sea Wing" 1000-mini underwater gliders developed by the Shenyang Institute of Automation of the Chinese Academy of Sciences achieved fine hydrological measurements of the edge of a mesoscale vortex in the South China Sea during an 8-day continuous observation mission. Two "Sea Wing" 1000-minis were delivered.
As a new member of the "Sea Wing" series of underwater gliders, the "Sea Wing" 1000-mini is a 10-kg small underwater glider developed for the needs of multi-platform rapid deployment in batches and improving the rapid response capability of marine environmental observations. Glider, the maximum diving depth is 1000 meters. The successful completion of the South China Sea observation mission marks that the "Haiyi" 1000-mini underwater glider has reached a practical technical level. maintenance capability, laying an important foundation for subsequent large-scale promotion and application.

"Sea Wing" 1000-mini single-handed deployment

"Sea Wing" 1000-mini underwater glider cloth into water​

 

[pakje]

if you're forgoing expensive radars and sensors why would you need to make it big, wouldn't multiple smaller arsenal ships make more sense as the only big cost will be the CIWS

 

[ougoah]

if you're forgoing expensive radars and sensors why would you need to make it big, wouldn't multiple smaller arsenal ships make more sense as the only big cost will be the CIWS

To accommodate 200 uvls cells it would still need to be at least 055 size in terms of displacement but certainly a different hull design.

 

[reservior dogs]

if you're forgoing expensive radars and sensors why would you need to make it big, wouldn't multiple smaller arsenal ships make more sense as the only big cost will be the CIWS

I seem to recall that the Chinese were experimenting with semi-submersible arsenal ships, which would significantly reduce the radar signature and the chance of being hit. If you are going 30 knots and crossing long distances, there are certain economy of scale for larger ships. Also a single large ship means the type-55 would only need to communicate with one ship instead of five. What is important for defense is that all the ships packed closely together.

 

[Blitzo]

To accommodate 200 uvls cells it would still need to be at least 055 size in terms of displacement but certainly a different hull design.

I think what he means is that if you want to pursue an "arsenal ship" capability -- that is to say, an at sea VLS farm aboard a ship with minimal onboard sensors and minimal additional faculties -- then using multiple smaller ships would be better to distribute your 200 VLS tubes among more vessels instead of a single large vulnerable vessel.


USVs or reduced manning surface ships would be the natural step for it -- a 3000t-4000t LUSV designed from the outset to carry 48-64 VLS, with minimal manning requirement, and still competitive range (by virtue of being a USV), would be far more sensible and mass producible than a single large ship carrying 200 VLS.

It also means that if you lose one of your LUSV-arsenal ships, it only take away 48-64 VLS rather than all 200.



That said, this discussion about arsenal ships is somewhat off topic and if people continue this conversation I'll move it to a different thread.

 

[vincent]

It also means that if you lose one of your LUSV-arsenal ships, it only take away 48-64 VLS rather than all 200.

That said, this discussion about arsenal ships is somewhat off topic and if people continue this conversation I'll move it to a different thread.

Ya, let’s continue the discussion in another thread. Since the PLAN is developing USVs, an USV hosts lots of UVLS that will be part of a carrier battle group makes sense.

 

[ougoah]

I think what he means is that if you want to pursue an "arsenal ship" capability -- that is to say, an at sea VLS farm aboard a ship with minimal onboard sensors and minimal additional faculties -- then using multiple smaller ships would be better to distribute your 200 VLS tubes among more vessels instead of a single large vulnerable vessel.


USVs or reduced manning surface ships would be the natural step for it -- a 3000t-4000t LUSV designed from the outset to carry 48-64 VLS, with minimal manning requirement, and still competitive range (by virtue of being a USV), would be far more sensible and mass producible than a single large ship carrying 200 VLS.

It also means that if you lose one of your LUSV-arsenal ships, it only take away 48-64 VLS rather than all 200.



That said, this discussion about arsenal ships is somewhat off topic and if people continue this conversation I'll move it to a different thread.

Edit: sorry I didn't see your new post about placing this convo in other thread. Could you please move it. Thank you!

The depth of cells would be similarly restricted as 054A. The maximum depth at centre is going to be more or less the same as a ship of similar displacement unless the hull design is just so drastically different and optimised for this purpose. Regardless, it would be severely limited unless you make something at least 052D sized.

Anyway it's all trade offs and where the best design is or variety of platforms, I don't know. The idea of making use of this networking capability is what makes me a proponent of arsenal ships for plan. It may be a case an ideal design with 5000t displacement can house =/> 9m cells for a great portion of available vls. Maybe not. That's not important and up to those with the detailed information to decide on.

At the moment what is missing is clearly this style of ship that packs on the firepower per tonne of displacement by making use of China's now incredibly deep network of space based, high altitude, and high altitude high speed sensor nodes. Not to mention pretty much every other piece of sensor equipment being top of their field and networked.

No other nation (except potentially the US) has China's variety of space based sensors and communication + networking capabilities. None have something the equivalent of wz-8 (except perhaps the US as some classified platform). Divine eagle and the other Chinese high tier surveillance drones? Not even the US.

CEC equipment onboard Chinese ships and aircraft may as well be at least half a generation ahead of the US, likely more than one gen ahead given how much of it is directly similar to leading edge commercial telecomm technology which china genuinely dominates by some considerable distance. I won't bother going into that as a lot is hearsay from friends in telecomm but suffice to say, Chinese tech is beyond what optimistic estimates are in certain fields.

So one wonders why the PLAN doesn't seem to be commissioning arsenal ship projects. I get they like to play things safe and go with matured and proven platforms/technologies along with doing things slowly (relative) and step by step. But at least two trial ships of this type is justified.

 

[ougoah]

Is there actually a genuine leak/ trusted hint of china developing. Semi submerged arsenal ship? I thought that was just members on this forum speculating on a picture that has been revealed to be entirely something else and nothing like a prototype/ modelling of an arsenal ship program.

 

[vincent]

An arsenal USV ship doesn’t have to be large to host a decent number of UVLS cells. Since there are no crew or only a tiny number of temporary crew, the ship doesn’t need berthing spaces, kitchen, food storage, bridge, etc. It will not be that much different from a modern container ship.

That’s said, I think PLAN should work on an ASW USV first. One carrier battle group can have a large number of them forming a net all around the carrier to protect the manned surface ships from enemy subs.

 

[dingyibvs]

I seem to recall that the Chinese were experimenting with semi-submersible arsenal ships, which would significantly reduce the radar signature and the chance of being hit. If you are going 30 knots and crossing long distances, there are certain economy of scale for larger ships. Also a single large ship means the type-55 would only need to communicate with one ship instead of five. What is important for defense is that all the ships packed closely together.

Yeah, I wonder what happened to that idea. Such a ship can just surface, fire a bunch of ASuW or AShW missiles, then submerge and they'd be completely protected unless an enemy warship penetrates close enough to fire torpedoes. With no acoustic deadening or sensors needed, the cost can be kept relatively low as well. Given the simplicity of its role it can perhaps even be unmanned, further keeping cost down.

Perhaps a future CSG would only have a couple 055 type ships escorting the carrier, and together with the carrier air wing they'd primarily provide anti-air capabilities with secondary multi-role capabilities. Almost all other assets would be used for reconnaissance, targeting, and ASW roles as the arsenal ships would be the ones carrying all the ASuW and AShW missiles.