Chinese UCAV/CCA/flying wing drones (ISR, A2A, A2G)

Nx4eu said:

The drone being bigger or smaller than the B-21 just appears to be a dick measuring contest at this point or should I say wing measuring. What is important is that it's a bomber sized drone, the outrage online about it being bigger or smaller than the B-21 seems like childish semantics.

Like what siegecrossbow said the exact size in relation to the B-21 doesn't matter. What is important is that it's bomber sized, and the relative capabilities it may have due to these size requirements.

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Comparing it with B-21 is only useful in the sense that B-21 is the closest approximate sized aircraft of a similar planform so it's useful to say in shorthand that it is an "unmanned B-21 class flying wing".

I hope that people who have been so focused on comparing the two aircraft's wingspan only did so due to poor information on B-21s wingspan and quibbling over measurement methods, rather than hoping that GJ-X had a "larger" wingspan than B-21 as if that is worth anything, considering in every important aspect a few meters difference doesn't really matter.

siegecrossbow said:

I’m not entirely sure why we are so fixated on the exact size when the it is obvious that GJ- is a B-21 class aircraft. That’s enough for me.

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Substitute for a different size conversation probably

Knowing we have a Guam bomber is good enough for me. This thing can provide sustained low cost strikes and suppression from 1IC up to Guam, a missing capability in PLA up till now.

That it is unmanned shows PLAAF has a lot of confidence in comm network and AI.

siegecrossbow said:

I don’t think it is unmanned H-20 but rather bomber equivalent to CCA that could follow H-20 on long range strategic missions. There are two variants of drone — one to provide ISR and the other to carry additional munition. H-20 will be the control node for the two drones.

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Otter says that GJ-X is not H-20.

enroger said:

Knowing we have a Guam bomber is good enough for me. This thing can provide sustained low cost strikes and suppression from 1IC up to Guam, a missing capability in PLA up till now.

That it is unmanned shows PLAAF has a lot of confidence in comm network and AI.

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IMO a long endurance VLO drone with massive internal volume can do a lot more than just being a bomber.
It would for example also make an excellent unmanned stealth tanker.

I think people also focus too much on Guam, every island that China can project superior power and enforce a blockade over is an island China can land forces on, and each island China land forces is an island that further expand strike range eastwards.

US island hopped westwards during WW2, I don't know why people keep forgetting China can do the same in the opposite direction, especially since the islands are from a force-projection perspective directly linked to Chinese mainland.

siegecrossbow said:

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Otter says that GJ-X is not H-20.

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The way I see it, Ayi's reply could well be more of an affirmation of the following:

1. GJ-X is not meant to be a stand-in for the H-20;
2. GJ-X will not succeed the H-6 family in the strategic bomber role (only being complementary and supplementary); and
3. H-20 is very much a separate project from the GJ-X.

This probably serves to counter the murmurs of the likes of "the GJ-X is the H-20" or "there will be no more H-20, the GJ-X is the future strategic bomber of China".

Syrida2887 said:

No, according to some people, this is not the H-20 that everyone, including China military fans, expected, but just a foreplay product.

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I am not surprised at all because there are things only a 150+ tonne, manned, non-compromise platform could do.

siegecrossbow said:

I’m not entirely sure why we are so fixated on the exact size when the it is obvious that GJ- is a B-21 class aircraft. That’s enough for me.

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If anything TWZ is whom fixed on this. It is a weird fixation. The GJ-X has 90%+ of the B-21's wingspan and roughly 85% of its planform area. This is like trying to differentiate between the Rafale-M and the F/A-18. These aircraft are similarly sized and for the same purpose, just like the GJ-X and B-21 are.

The H-20 will likely be expensive, and China needs them in numbers. It makes complete sense to develop a potentially much cheaper unmanned platform to complement the program.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

The way I see it, Ayi's reply could well be more of an affirmation of the following:

1. GJ-X is not meant to be a stand-in for the H-20;
2. GJ-X will not succeed the H-6 family in the strategic bomber role (only being complementary and supplementary); and
3. H-20 is very much a separate project from the GJ-X.

This probably serves to counter the murmurs of the likes of "the GJ-X is the H-20" or "there will be no more H-20, the GJ-X is the future strategic bomber of China".

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Yeah I don't read that as meaning it's not a bomber UAV capable of independently conducting 2-3IC strike missions at all. And obviously nobody should be thinking of this as H-20/strategic bomber replacement given China has signed onto international consensus affirming not placing nuclear weapons employment decisions with AI (not to mention that'd be dumb for multiple reasons anyway).

00CuriousObserver said:

The H-20 will likely be expensive, and China needs them in numbers. It makes complete sense to develop a potentially much cheaper unmanned platform to complement the program.

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So... Maybe two GJ-Xs for every H-20?

Then I'd wish for a bomber fleet of 100x H-20s with ~200x GJ-Xs.

For reference - During the Reagan-era, the US had planned for a fleet of 130+ B-2s and 100+ B-1Bs during the Cold War. And before the emergence of the ATB and B-1B programs, the original plan was to be 240+ B-1B.