Not on thier weapons IN thier weapons! This is 100% true in the case of machine gunners! These were water cooled and the barrels were inside of a water jacket, with water supplies in shortage they were really left with no other option! I recently viewed a documentary about WWI and they mentioned this practice!
chinese small arms thread
- Thread starter MIGleader
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The AR-15 is a M-16 that is simply the designation given to an AR by the military. Also the AK has as many flaws as the AR and they both have thier strengths that is why China dropped devolopement and production of the Type 56! They devoloped the 81 which is basically an AK and SKS combined because the type 56 did not have sufficient accuracy on semi auto fire and was uncontrollable on full auto!
AK-47's are know for firepower not accuracy the AR is more of a precision tool and because of this it suffers in reliability! You have to understand where the need for assault rifle comes from, before assualt rifles troops generally had rifles and sub machine guns both of which had major disadvantages in battle! The rifle was cumbersome overpowered and has a slow rate of fire the submachine gun lacked power and accuracy! The solution was the assault rifle, basically a carbine with full auto fire select! The AR is more a rifle than machine gun and the AK is more a machine gun than a rifle! The AK is compared to a blunt stick and the AR to a precision tool! The newer AR platforms are using piston systems that vent outside of the breech solving the crap where you eat problem! The AK is good at laying down a wall of lead and the AR is good at making precision shots! The 5.56 causes more damage due to bullet yaw and has a higher velocity making it more accurate, that is why they developed the AK-74 and 5.54 round it's ballistics are simmilar to that of the 5.56! With the newer rifles like the SCAR who would want either of those outdated relics in a combat situation anyway?
I would agreed that M16 had better accuracy when compared to AK-series of rifle (earlier version at least). But when in real combat situation, I would rather shoot from a more reliable and rugged weapon than a weapon that give good accuracy but jammed every now and then.
I have handled a M16 (M16S1 - Singapore made M16A1 rifle), and seriously the rifle sucks. It required too much maintainence and my rifle broke when I drop it on the ground accidentally once. Although the parts that broke can be reassembled easily, but if this happen in real combat situation, I cannot imagine myself having to fix that rifle while trying to hide from hostile fire. Of course I admit that I might get a poor quality rifle, but it really give me very bad impression on this weapon.
Plus as quote from globalsecurity ()
Globalsecurity said:
a good comparison between an AK-47 and a M-16
One note on this was that,
a paragraph above indicate that the rifle in question was M4 or M16.
I believe the main reason for the Chinese not wanting to continue their Type 56 rifle production was the fact that they found a more accurate version in the form of Type 81 rifle. Then they began fielding the Type 95. And one of the biggest reason to change to 5.8mm rounds was that it was smaller and lighter and so troop could carry more rounds than 7.62mm rounds. Plus as claimed, the 5.8mm rounds have better penetration power... but I do not believe that it had better stopping power.
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Nice JS9.
There are many makers of AR style weapons China included, but here in the States there are only a few who have actual military contracts and it shows in thier products! The designs have improved over the years and they are totally modular weapon systems now and no longer just a rifle! There are numerous choices of calibers, accesories and gas systems and if you ever handled an AR built by the Smith and Wesson company you would be highly impressed! Not only were the first M-16s issued without cleaning kits and troops were told they did not need cleaned, they also issued dirty ammo that fouled the weapon horribly!
The 7.62x39 round has alot of penetration but it is a slower round. Rounds such as the 5.56 and 5.45 have a velocity this improves accuracy they also inflict a great deal of hydostatic shock and tend to yaw creating far greater wounds. Believe it or not the U.S. designed the 5.56 to wound and not kill soldiers but it is very deadly out to 200 yards! The 5.45 Soviet round was devoloped because of the 5.56 round, there are many reasons why. Stopping power, can carry more ammo, smaller bolt better balances the AK design etc...
That is correct they dropped the type 56 because they were not satisfied with its performance! The type 81 is designed from the AK-47 and the SKS, here is a good article on the 81
"Due to the Sino-Russo ideological split in the early 1960s, the Russians never gave the Chinese licenses to produce the AKM and the RPK, the light-machine-gun variant of the AKM. The Chinese army had never been wholly pleased with the AK's performance and chose to design a new rifle instead of continuing with the existing Type 56, their designation for the AK."
"The mission for a new indigenous military rifle started in the 1960s. The Type 63 rifle, a combination of SKS and AK features, came initially. It was proven to be unsatisfactory and was withdrawn from service by the mid-1970s. During the same period, among numerous other obscure research projects, the 66-136 experimental rifle emerged. The 66-136 laid the foundation for the development of the next generation of Chinese infantry rifle, the Type 81"
I can't post links yet but this article can be found at Guns and Ammo. There is also a very good AR AK video on YouTube that compares them honestly, it was done by the Discovery channel.
Does anybody have any info on the early Chinese SKS rifles made at the Jianshe Arsenal? Also there was a SKS variant with a shortened barrel that was exported from China during the 80's these went under the name of the Cowboy's Companion and Paratrooper models these were never military issue models just export gimmicks to get more sales! I basically am looking for info into where these were modified how many were made and any other history on them. The early chinese SKSs' are very nice examples of the SKS design!
Well... I found a link, I think the Chinese called their SKS - Type 56 too.
Thanks! But thats not exactly what I'm looking for, that is a general history of the SKS.
I am a collector and looking for more info on a specific maker and model.
Jianshe arsenal is the producer, the Paratrooper and Cowboy's companion are the variants!
I'm in the USA and there is only so much info available about these models, I was hoping somebody in China might have more info on them.
Basically importers modified SKS rifles to increase sales, they shortened the barrel to 16.5 inches and packaged them with different accesories. These were called the Paratrooper it had the bayonet then there was the Cowboy's Companion it did not have the bayo lug the third model offered was something like the Snipers friend I can't remember but it came with a scope and bipod. These were made for the civilian market and were never issued to any troops. They were imported by Trident and Norinco and made from surplus rifles as well as spare parts assembled by the importers.
I'm looking for more history on where these were modified and assembled not general history on the SKS but thanks for trying to help it's appreciated!