Chinese shipbuilding industry

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I doubt that military construction is affecting so much the Chinese shipyards.

The whole 2010-2020 period we saw a dramatic ramp up of military construction and I still didnt hear much about this having a negative effect to the Chinese shipyards

Only CSSC shipyards are affected, not private ones. However, CSSC shipyards are the ones making the flagship items like LNG carriers, larger tankers, and the largest container ships. This is not likely to affect bulk freighters --- the ones that carry raw material like grain, coal and ore --- as these are done by private yards.

Plus a good part of warship production are not done by docks and yards that do not do large commercial ships. Frigates for example are done through the smaller docks and sheds. The one in HDZ along Huangpu River is dedicated to military construction anyway and so are the smaller docks. Submarines use specialized shipyards. Bulk freighters, which is another hot commodity item now, are often done by private yards.

The ones that will be most affected will be Jiangnan and the HDZ new site in Changxing Island. The current Phase 1 in Hudong Zhonghua Changxing is currently doing LNG carriers for various customers, each ship at least 300 meters long. This facility is being expanded under Phase 2.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
How many new hulls each year do you think is involved in a naval build up? What percentage of total Chinese ship construction capacity do you think that represent. For that matter what percentage of the available ship yards do you think is actually capable of build warships?

I explained much of it on the reply to another post.

The whole HDZ Changxing extension is estimated with an output of 6 large ships per year. This is currently doing LNG carriers and have done the CMA CGN dual fuel 23,000 container ships. In addition to military contracts, they already got slots filled for additional LNG carriers, orders from COSCO and MOL likely, as well as from Russia (Yamal LNG project) to serve the Northeast Route.

I do not think additional 075 and the heard about Type 076 will be built in the old Hudong Zhonghua facility. Once this yard is finished with its existing contracts --- the four Type 054A/P, the Thai 071E, and the eight Type 054A ordered by PLAN, this yard is finshed and will be sold to the real estate developers. The Shanghai local government wants all yards out of the city and the remaining land built into high rise condos to alleviate the rise of home prices.

Whatever new contracts --- 075, 076, additional 071, Type 054B --- these will have to be built in the HDZ Changxing extension. This migration of HDZ from its old site at Huangpu River to Changxing Island, this can be a big factor as military construction will now compete with civilian construction.

JIangnan is currently doing a boatload of orders, and they got orders from Evergreen to build the world's largest containers ships (24,000TEU), an order that is split between Samsung Heavy Industries. Ship class is often divided between Chinese and Korean shipyards, sometimes even Japanese shipyards. This shows you that slots have been tight. There was a recent order from a Chinese shipowner to a Korean or Japanese shipmaker, so this is an indication that slots even the private ones are getting tight in the mainland.

Considering that Jiangnan is doing containerships and LNG carriers, while it has to do 003, rumors of 004, more 055 and 052D/E, that's all going to be tight.

Dalian shipyard are known to be doing oil tankers, and they got some orders including from Teekay. I do not think they will be building another carrier so the dock used by the Liaoning and Shandong will be used for more commercial ships. But the other dock used to make 055s and 052D, currently being used for commercial ships, can be rededicated once more to destroyers.

As far as frigates goes, these are built by smaller state owned shipyards that do not do large ships, so building frigates use a different capacity. Many of the smaller ships are also built in private yards, so that is not going to be affected. Huangpu Shipyard for example, uses an older facility to build frigates and government ships (yes it looks old and messy are previously commented), but it also has a new facility that they are using for commercial newbuild.

Shipyard next to Jiangnan, Shanghai Waigaiqaio I hope I got the spelling right, doesn't do military ships, so this will continue to do large scale commercial ships.
 
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Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
I explained much of it on the reply to another post.

The whole HDZ Changxing extension is estimated with an output of 6 large ships per year. This is currently doing LNG carriers and have done the CMA CGN dual fuel 23,000 container ships. In addition to military contracts, they already got slots filled for additional LNG carriers, orders from COSCO and MOL likely, as well as from Russia (Yamal LNG project) to serve the Northeast Route.

I do not think additional 075 and the heard about Type 076 will be built in the old Hudong Zhonghua facility. Once this yard is finished with its existing contracts --- the four Type 054A/P, the Thai 071E, and the eight Type 054A ordered by PLAN, this yard is finshed and will be sold to the real estate developers. The Shanghai local government wants all yards out of the city and the remaining land built into high rise condos to alleviate the rise of home prices.

Whatever new contracts --- 075, 076, additional 071, Type 054B --- these will have to be built in the HDZ Changxing extension. This migration of HDZ from its old site at Huangpu River to Changxing Island, this can be a big factor as military construction will now compete with civilian construction.

JIangnan is currently doing a boatload of orders, and they got orders from Evergreen to build the world's largest containers ships (24,000TEU), an order that is split between Samsung Heavy Industries. Ship class is often divided between Chinese and Korean shipyards, sometimes even Japanese shipyards. This shows you that slots have been tight. There was a recent order from a Chinese shipowner to a Korean or Japanese shipmaker, so this is an indication that slots even the private ones are getting tight in the mainland.

Considering that Jiangnan is doing containerships and LNG carriers, while it has to do 003, rumors of 004, more 055 and 052D/E, that's all going to be tight.

Dalian shipyard are known to be doing oil tankers, and they got some orders including from Teekay. I do not think they will be building another carrier so the dock used by the Liaoning and Shandong will be used for more commercial ships. But the other dock used to make 055s and 052D, currently being used for commercial ships, can be rededicated once more to destroyers.

As far as frigates goes, these are built by smaller state owned shipyards that do not do large ships, so building frigates use a different capacity. Many of the smaller ships are also built in private yards, so that is not going to be affected. Huangpu Shipyard for example, uses an older facility to build frigates and government ships (yes it looks old and messy are previously commented), but it also has a new facility that they are using for commercial newbuild.

Shipyard next to Jiangnan, Shanghai Waigaiqaio I hope I got the spelling right, doesn't do military ships, so this will continue to do large scale commercial ships.
These shipbuilders are working overtime. But these Chinese shipyards need to double up their efforts, rather than losing businesses to competitors. Conversion of old HDZ shipyards to apartments is questionable, as those lands are contaminated with industrial pollution or heavy metals which will take years to clean up.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
These shipbuilders are working overtime. But these Chinese shipyards need to double up their efforts, rather than losing businesses to competitors. Conversion of old HDZ shipyards to apartments is questionable, as those lands are contaminated with industrial pollution or heavy metals which will take years to clean up.

But it's still prime land. A 100m2 apartment will still sell for over 600K USD in that area, based on 40000 RMB/m2

With a back on the envelope calculation, I'm getting 1.5km2 of land occupied by the shipyard.
That's over 2000 apartments worth $1.2 Billion in sales.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
But it's still prime land. A 100m2 apartment will still sell for over 600K USD in that area, based on 40000 RMB/m2

With a back on the envelope calculation, I'm getting 1.5km2 of land occupied by the shipyard.
That's over 2000 apartments worth $1.2 Billion in sales.
The prices are certainly very profitable. In Hong Kong, a comparable apartment built on the old Kai Tak airport, is worth HK$30,000 per sq ft.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
These shipbuilders are working overtime. But these Chinese shipyards need to double up their efforts, rather than losing businesses to competitors. Conversion of old HDZ shipyards to apartments is questionable, as those lands are contaminated with industrial pollution or heavy metals which will take years to clean up.

They already did this before, and over and over again, such as with the old Jiangnan, Shanghai Waigaoqiao, and Huarun Dadong shipyards before these companies moved out of the city. Maybe you should question whether or how much did they really cleaned up before they poured concrete and built condos and malls over the old shipyards.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Much demand for LNG carriers in the future, note this in the light as China overtakes Japan as the biggest importer. I wonder how CSSC would be able to juggle their shipbuilding between the economy and the navy.

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Maybe some of these Guangdong shipyards should double up their efforts by cranking out some LNG carriers. Do they possess this capability right now? Some technology transfer among shipyards would be prudent if necessary.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Maybe some of these Guangdong shipyards should double up their efforts by cranking out some LNG carriers. Do they possess this capability right now? Some technology transfer among shipyards would be prudent if necessary.

Yangzijiang, Waigaoquiao, along with a shipyard in Dalian and another in Xiamen are licensed in cranking out LNG carriers. Other than that, CSSC would have to do talent and tech transfer to other state owned shipyards if necessary.
 
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