Chinese semiconductor thread II

[jx191]

The only visible progress was the Chinese government adding a 65nm lithography machine to the tool list and asking companies to use it. So far only one company did.

I'm pretty sure domestic DUV lithography has a come a long way. Domestics machines and production lines have progressed a lot and are/will be actively involved in chip output.

Not sure about EUV though. There isn't as much solid info.

 

[sunnymaxi]

The only visible progress was the Chinese government adding a 65nm lithography machine to the tool list and asking companies to use it. So far only one company did.

some mistakes in your post bro ..

CETC has too working 65nm dry Lithography.



in September, 2024 the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) announced 65nm Lithography but didn't mention any company name or how many companies..

@jx191 ..

 

[jx191]

some mistakes in your post bro ..

CETC has too working 65nm dry Lithography.

View attachment 160595

in September, 2024 the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) announced 65nm Lithography but didn't mention any company name or how many companies..

@jx191 ..

The domestic DUV situation is pretty strong and there is enough evidence to show for progress, especially once advanced node production starts scaling up next year.

Personally, I think progress in EUV is questionable, only because there are many conflicting rumors about the development situation. Not just here but on other platforms as well.

 

[latenlazy]

I feel like he's trying to say that even with much less disclosure, information still slips out every now and then. So the fact that we've heard very little means there isn't much actual progress in regards to domestic lithography development. Not sure if I agree.

We have been getting slips now and then. What’s the SA900 rumors and 7 nm domestic fan expansion stories if not that.

The only visible progress was the Chinese government adding a 65nm lithography machine to the tool list and asking companies to use it. So far only one company did.

All domestic lines meanwhile are deliberately invisible. I guess you can insist those don’t exist too. Maybe they don’t.

 

[tokenanalyst]

CAS makes prototypes. Proof of concept prototypes. It is an academic institution. They do not make production machines of the kind you need for mass production. As for SMEE something messed up seems to have happened with them. The front end and back end lithography businesses seem to have split and there is talk of employees being poached by SiCarrier and others. None of this bodes well for them. But it was probably necessary because they weren't delivering.

I don't think you read what I posted. CAS is not just building "prototypes". They are collaborating with industry including the fabs (SMIC and others) in the creation of entire supply chains for Semiconductor Equipment. In the case of lithography, is not just " a machine". Is an entire supply chain to create lithography machines, KrF, ArF, ArFi and EUV.
The time from "prototype" to verification and production has shorten significantly in China

 

[sunnymaxi]

The domestic DUV situation is pretty strong and there is enough evidence to show for progress, especially once advanced node production starts scaling up next year.

Personally, I think progress in EUV is questionable, only because there are many conflicting rumors about the development situation. Not just here but on other platforms as well.

we have had enough discussion about EUV on this thread.

there are multiple efforts regarding EUV in mainland China.. from CIOMP to SIOMP to HIT. we have concrete evidence with number of invention patents , research papers and components manufacturing.. but these Machine takes time. you need years and years for testing and evolution..

the issue is, we people demand official announcement from company or government.. and unfortunately China don't do this. lol

 

[gelgoog]

It is perfectly normal for the EUV machine to take time since the funding to actually make a production ready prototype was only given post 2020. But the thing is the 28nm immersion DUV lithography machine had been funded for a long time and should have been available already. Not just a 65nm dry DUV machine.

 

[jx191]

We have been getting slips now and then. What’s the SA900 rumors and 7 nm domestic fan expansion stories if not that.


All domestic lines meanwhile are deliberately invisible. I guess you can insist those don’t exist too. Maybe they don’t.

For me at least there are a lot of rumors about EUV that it's difficult to choose what to believe sometimes. Keeping things secret is wise but does cause scepticism amongst outsiders. Maybe that plays to their advantage in the long run...

 

[jx191]

we have had enough discussion about EUV on this thread.

there are multiple efforts regarding EUV in mainland China.. from CIOMP to SIOMP to HIT. we have concrete evidence with number of invention patents , research papers and components manufacturing.. but these Machine takes time. you need years and years for testing and evolution..

the issue is, we people demand official announcement from company or government.. and unfortunately China don't do this. lol

Yeah, most people wouldn't be satisfied with the current amount of information available. This thread has a lot of really good stuff, but until it's official in some form, people will unfortunately always be curious about the development, me definitely included. Sometimes I wonder whether it would be worth drip-feeding official/confirmed reliable info to stop the discussions without compromising the development itself.

 

[sunnymaxi]

It is perfectly normal for the EUV machine to take time since the funding to actually make a production ready prototype was only given post 2020. But the thing is the 28nm immersion DUV lithography machine had been funded for a long time and should have been available already. Not just a 65nm dry DUV machine.

i m with you on this.. they should have at least announce.

for you, i had to go through in this lengthy thread. see what i have found.

the team provide the ''active anti-vibration platform'' component to all domestic lithography machine. and look what they revealed in their presentation. first official image of SSA800i ..

read this quote post.. read carefully. there are much more information other than 28nm Litho

For the record, the guy who is talking is from Huazhong University of Science and Technology (HUST) and it seems thay developed an active anti-vibration platform for lithographic machines.

This conference was held in July this year (so already half year ago).

In one of the pictures, they refer to a 28nm litho machine that uses their anti-vibration system: it is visible the brand (a bit blurred), is a SMEE machine!

View attachment 141923

they have the machine. but they are not announcing it.