Chinese semiconductor industry

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weig2000

Captain
I guess I misunderstood in the past. I thought the 28nm immersion lithography machine can do chips lower than 28nm. I guess it can only do 28nm chips ? So can't do 14nm or 10nm at all? It's still a good achievement but sadly will not help Huawei or SMIC in the near future.

28nm refers to the resolution (分辨率) of the lithography machines, see the 600-series machine technical specification table listed in the report. 14nm, 10nm, 7nm etc. are the semiconductor chip processing nodes. Supposedly, the 28nm SMEE lithography machine can achieve minimum 11nm processing node.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
28nm refers to the resolution (分辨率) of the lithography machines, see the 600-series machine technical specification table listed in the report. 14nm, 10nm, 7nm etc. are the semiconductor chip processing nodes. Supposedly, the 28nm SMEE lithography machine can achieve minimum 11nm processing node.

Wow! If this pans out. We are getting close. Too bad I can't read Chinese, the report looks super interesting. 7nm is the last node that can be done without euv right?

Also I can't translate the table. can you point out where it says 11nm processing nodes?
 

weig2000

Captain
Wow! If this pans out. We are getting close. Too bad I can't read Chinese, the report looks super interesting. 7nm is the last node that can be done without euv right?

Well, SMIC claims their N+1 node, very close to 7nm but not quite, is doable using their current DUV machine from ASML. The N+2 node, though, would only be done with EUV.

I'd like to point out though, that I can not trace the so-called media report that SMEE will have 28nm lithography machine ready by 2021-2022 to the original source for now. Most of the relevant reports are just claiming "media reports" without citing the source. It may all be some of the more eager online news outlets pushing out eye-catching stories. That said, there has been a plan for SMEE have the 28nm machine ready by the end of 2020. So the rumored dates of 2021-2022 are actually delayed according to plan.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
China has developed EUV light source ? This is big news if confirmed. I read an article about an experimental UV lithography machine developed by China, but it clearly doesn't use euv light source and is only for the laboratory.
Apparently Harbin Institute of Technology has developed a discharge pulse power source with a 125W output.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Well, SMIC claims their N+1 node, very close to 7nm but not quite, is doable using their current DUV machine from ASML. The N+2 node, though, would only be done with EUV.

I'd like to point out though, that I can not trace the so-called media report that SMEE will have 28nm lithography machine ready by 2021-2022 to the original source for now. Most of the relevant reports are just claiming "media reports" without citing the source. It may all be some of the more eager online news outlets pushing out eye-catching stories. That said, there has been a plan for SMEE have the 28nm machine ready by the end of 2020. So the rumored dates of 2021-2022 are actually delayed according to plan.
SMEE could deliver the 28nm machine by the end of 2020, and then the customer spends most of 2021 getting it up and running.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
28nm refers to the resolution (分辨率) of the lithography machines, see the 600-series machine technical specification table listed in the report. 14nm, 10nm, 7nm etc. are the semiconductor chip processing nodes. Supposedly, the 28nm SMEE lithography machine can achieve minimum 11nm processing node.
Generally speaking, a modern 28-38nm DUV machine should be capable of 7nm after multiple exposures and photomasks, though with more errors and time compared to EUV in general.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Out of curiosity which technology does everyone think is easier for China to catch up on and reasons why?

Jet engines

vs

Semiconductor
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Apparently Harbin Institute of Technology has developed a discharge pulse power source with a 125W output.
Just looked over the info about the Changchun Institute EUV Prototype and found out that it actually uses a LPP Light source. So its very likely that they have a parallel LPP Light source program going on. They are probably going with the DPP light source due to less complexity, cost and lower operating cost.
 

weig2000

Captain
Out of curiosity which technology does everyone think is easier for China to catch up on and reasons why?

Jet engines

vs

Semiconductor

Yes, these are the two key areas of strategic and foundational technology that China is still quite behind the world's best. There are areas China is also behind, but they're either niche or not as strategic and foundational as these two.

Neither of them is easy for China to catch up in a short period of time with the world's best. But if you insist, I'd say it's semiconductor. Two of the more important reasons:

First is the size and scope of the related markets and industries in China. China has the world's largest electronic manufacturing and ICT industries and is the world's largest technology product exporter. Yes, a lot of them are designed outside of China, but still. Think of Apple, which has created a thriving indigenous and increasingly sophisticated smartphone supply chain, upon which Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo have developed and evolved. There are also other industries other than smartphone, including consumer electronics, industrial electronics, telecommunication. Contrary to what a lot of people in the West like to believe, China is much, much more than just assembling the final products. It has a lot of its own brands and OEMs. Semiconductor industry is the upper stream industry and will benefit from all these large, vibrant and sophisticated downstream industries. Also, if you look at the semiconductor industry itself, China is probably the only country/economy other than the US to have players in equipment, material, design, manufacturing, testing & packaging of semiconductor. In other words, it's an all around player. Sure, most of them are quite behind the latest generation of technologies and have rather small market share. That's mostly because they're late to the fast-changing game. Now, thanks to the US sanctions, ...

China also has a very large domestic aviation market, the second largest and soon will be the largest in the world. That is why China may still pull off to create a viable aero engine industry. But civil aircraft industry is a mature and relative stable market. It's a B2B industry and customers are risk averse. It's hard for China to break into the industry globally other than its domestic industry having coming to the game so late. Other than China, I can't think of any other country having even a chance.

The second is the diffusion of the related semiconductor technology and industry. The US has the strongest semiconductor industry, all considered. But it hardly dominates in everything semiconductor. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Europe all have strong sectors or niche within the semiconductor industry. It is difficult for the US or anyone else to corner any particular technologies for long. China has been recruiting talents from Taiwan, South Korea and Japan and these outside helps have made a big difference.

Compare to the aero engine industry, which has only a few strong players (GE, HP, R&R) with very high entry-barriers. It is a very mature industry and is difficult to be disrupted by new technologies or new players. The know-how has been accumulated over many decades and are closely guarded by fewer players.

China has come a long way in designing and manufacturing military aero engines, but it still has a long way to go to produce civilian aircraft engines - its indigenous civilian aircraft industry has barely started.
 
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