Chinese semiconductor industry

Tyler said:

They are trying to steal technology and talent from Taiwan Chinese. China should act now before technology got stolen by the enemy.
The US claims China is trying to restrict rare earths, but instead it is the US that is endangering China's supply chains in semiconductors and other high tech components.

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Frankly, 5nm in 2024-25 isn't very impressive.

Instead of subsidizing TSMC building six modules/production lines (if its actually six fabs in Arizona, the price tag will be at least $72 billion just for 5nm alone), the US Government should give DARPA $20 billion to operate a 3-5nm process development consortium, and then lease that tech out to whomever wants to play as "America's foundry".

silentlurker said:

This I don't get, isn't base Android open source? Why design another OS instead?

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The kernel is supposedly different and is a micro kernel archetecture. The higher level api layer is similar to android to allow for easy app cross compatibility. It is important to own the OS layer, because it can become another source of revenue w app store/api , prevent sanctions or even another major / global competitor.

daifo said:

The kernel is supposedly different and is a micro kernel archetecture. The higher level api layer is similar to android to allow for easy app cross compatibility. It is important to own the OS layer, because it can become another source of revenue w app store/api , prevent sanctions or even another major / global competitor.

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Huawei’s backup plan is to move toward being a software company. Use its existing phones to start an installation base for its OS, then gets other phone makers to adopt it, and gets a cut from app sales or services.

daifo said:

It is important to own the OS layer, because it can become another source of revenue w app store/api , prevent sanctions or even another major / global competitor.

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Yeah this is sort of my question, if its open source how can it be sanctioned? You can build your own environment/app store on top of base android, look at samsung app store for example.

OppositeDay said:

There is a saying on the Chinese internet "when China is weak Taiwan is China's problem, when China is strong Taiwan is America's problem'. U.S. cannot push China TOO far for the fear of a Chinese military takeover of Taiwan, which is good. China is not yet ready to completely decouple from the U.S.

U.S. of course doesn't want the Taiwan liability, so they will try their best to move Taiwanese semiconductor capacities to the U.S. Until then China has time. Also this could be a good opportunity to hire more Taiwanese engineers who doesn't want to move to the U.S., so a boost for China's semiconductor efforts.

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Well, wouldn't the importance of TSMC in global supply chain further incentivize U.S. to intervene militarily in a Cross Strait armed conflict?

Josh Luo said:

Well, wouldn't the importance of TSMC in global supply chain further incentivize U.S. to intervene militarily in a Cross Strait armed conflict?

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I see the Arizona TSMC fab as giving up on Taiwan pretty much. They will move all TSMC engineers there.


Tsai ing wen pretty much sold out the people of Taiwan.

silentlurker said:

Yeah this is sort of my question, if its open source how can it be sanctioned? You can build your own environment/app store on top of base android, look at samsung app store for example.

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The US can always try to pull a new trick out of its sleeve. RISC-V which is open sourced moved from the US to switzerland or sweden to prevent any type of US blocking.

As I said before, Harmony os is based on micro kernal archetecture and they are hoping to use it for all types of devices, cars, iot etc. Just using android, they will either be stuck on googles timeline or making large deviation in the code base then spending time to track/merge etc.

daifo said:

The US can always try to pull a new trick out of its sleeve. RISC-V which is open sourced moved from the US to switzerland or sweden to prevent any type of US blocking.

As I said before, Harmony os is based on micro kernal archetecture and they are hoping to use it for all types of devices, cars, iot etc. Just using android, they will either be stuck on googles timeline or making large deviation in the code base then spending time to track/merge etc.

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Open source was a ploy for Google to get adoption and everyone on board....

The original pitch was that anyone can use the android and run their own, in practice, only large company that tried to do this was Amazon with its FireOS, and even though Amazon is USA company and a large one at that, it still didn't succeed...

Note that Google is tying more and more of Android to its Google Play Services, Google Play Framework, and Google Play Store even have the default scanner/av etc so for all intents and purposes Android is useless without access to these and the Google Play store platform which ONLY Google has control over, ie only the US can dictate unilateral terms...

It is not the in long term interest of China to keep using Android, and this is a move that was needed sooner rather than later.

My predication is Huawei's mobile phone business is moving toward a pre-HTC acquisition Google Android model. Develop the OS and license to third parties to manufacture Harmony phones and collaborate with selected manufacturers for yearly releases of flagship models. Honor could be a potential partner. Huawei can contribute to camera or other designs. But won't be involved in either the manufucuring or distribution. So the U.S. chips ban doesn't apply.

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比亚迪半导体与华为合作开发车规级麒麟芯片，国产汽车不缺芯！
2021-01-21 EETimes China
最近汽车行业缺少芯片的问题沸沸扬扬，那么国内厂家缺芯吗？其实缺货问题主要发生在国外车企，国内汽车行业头部企业譬如比亚迪等没有传出缺货问题，反而传出比亚迪半导体与华为合作开发车规级麒麟芯片，并将进行IPO，估计100亿元。
原标题：比亚迪半导体接受IPO辅导估值超100亿，传与华为合作开发车规级麒麟芯片
作者：EETimes China

从本田开始，最近的汽车芯片缺货，已经导致多家国内外车企停产，如今奥迪、福特也加入了缺芯大队。然而比亚迪似乎没有缺货问题，他们甚至表示，公司在新能源电池、芯片等方面有一整套产业链，不仅可以充分自给，还有余量外供。
不光是股价高歌猛进，比亚迪近日还动作频频：宣布启用全新的品牌LOGO、成立电池研究新公司、宣布分拆比亚迪半导体上市。最新消息显示，比亚迪半导体已接受中金公司IPO辅导，并于近日在深圳证监局完成了辅导备案。
这一消息公布，距离比亚迪正式公告拟筹划比亚迪半导体分拆上市（12月30日），仅仅过去了20天。去年上半年，比亚迪半导体在完成重组后的69天内，超高速连续完成两轮合计金额达到27亿元的融资，在在长达半年的低调后，比亚迪半导体又完成了多轮融资，引入了红杉、小米等知名机构作为战投，投后估值已超100亿元。

去年11月，在ASPENCORE举办的全球CEO峰会上，比亚迪半导体总经理陈刚谈到了“半导体发展机遇”——是从比亚迪半导体的角度出发，谈比亚迪半导体眼中的半导体行业；发言中也特别谈到了如今比亚迪半导体在新能源汽车上的布局，及市场化的具体态度。详细报道请点击阅读：《车载半导体的机遇，与比亚迪半导体的市场化布局》
比亚迪半导体有限公司总经理 陈刚
《电子工程专辑》还就大家关注的问题，视频采访了比亚迪半导体总经理陈刚。点击观看视频：
《比亚迪半导体陈刚：保持开放姿态，在震荡中不断前行》
汽车芯片缺货加速比亚迪半导体上市
分析认为，比亚迪半导体再次加速上市脚步的背后，整个半导体行业，尤其是汽车行业的缺货潮是无法忽视的推动力之一。
根据众多券商研报以及产业调研，此次用在汽车领域短缺的芯片主要为单价若干美金的小芯片，如8位功能MCU，汽车零部件中的ESP（电子稳定程序系统）、ECO（智能发动机控制系统）模块就需要用到MCU。
而比亚迪方面从2007年开始进入MCU领域，目前拥有工业级通用MCU芯片、车规级8位、32位MCU芯片以及电池管理MCU芯片等系列产品，其中车规级MCU装车量突破500万颗。
除了MCU以外，车规级半导体中最大类别之一、也是比亚迪半导体主营业务的功率半导体，同样也正在面临严重短缺，甚至比MCU来得更早、情况也更为严峻。
据国内媒体去年11月报道，2020年，客户需求旺盛依旧，国内IGBT市场供应紧缺的情况却并未缓解，反而愈演愈烈。自年初起，国际IGBT大厂均受疫情影响，产能供应不足的问题持续存在，业内甚至一度传出IGBT供货周期延长至52周。
报道指出，随着国外IGBT产品供应不足，交期一再拉长，国内客户除了下全款订单等待产品的同时，也正在逐步接受国产IGBT，培养二供，给国内IGBT厂商一个“试错”机会。原本采用进口IGBT的厂商也因为供货不足，逐渐导入斯达半导、比亚迪半导体等国产供应商。
资料显示，比亚迪2005年就开始布局IGBT，2010年开始批量配套旗下新能源汽车。根据NE时代数据，2019年国内新能源汽车用IGBT中，比亚迪半导体市占率达18%，位列第二，仅次于全球龙头英凌飞，是当前国内最大的车规级半导体厂商。
产品方面，其自主研发的IGBT已发展到第四代，其芯片综合损耗较目前主流低20%，温度循环寿命提升10倍以上，2018年公司宣布成功研发出SiC MOSFET，可提升整车性能10%，已配套装车其搭载刀片电池的大热车型“汉”。
与华为合作研发车规级麒麟芯片
然而最劲爆的的消息还是“比亚迪和华为已经开始合作开发麒麟芯片”。
值得注意的是，这款麒麟芯片的未来搭载终端并没有透露，猜测很可能是车机设备。因为随着新能源汽车的发展，对车机性能有着更高的要求。

事实上，早在去年6月份，就有消息称比亚迪与华为已签订合作协议，准备打造车规级麒麟芯片，其首款产品为麒麟710A。
据悉，麒麟710A在此之前是由中芯国际代工并量产，采用的是14nm工艺。如果比亚迪能够实现该芯片的生产，那么麒麟710A将从设计、代工到封测等环节都可以实现自主可控。

Looks like byd wants to manufacture kirin series CPU from Huawei for its car. The first chip supplied to byd is by SMIC 14nm. It wants to setup a logic fab

Byd already plans to setup a SiC fab.

Among supplier of IGBT for car in China market. Indineon is number 1 and byd is number 2 with 18% market share