Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
两个芯片在测试,一个5G基带,一个SOC,后者设计的综合性能是当前次旗舰水准,命名可能会很旗舰。
然后新旗舰散热堆得很猛,有大面积金属和均热板
The guy that posted kirin 5G chips are coming back said this yesterday.

It's not clear what he means by SoC performance is at the level below current flagship. So, it's saying that this is Below Snapdragon 8+ but at Snapdragon 888 level? or that it is at Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 level? Maybe I'm being too optimistic here

Also, I fully expect Mate 60 itself to come in 4G and 5G version. Both using Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, but 1 will come with 5G modem & RF module

And this is bad news for Apple, since HW flagship phones are really the only ones competing against iPhone on the very top end.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
China's SAW filter market is quite scattered. More recently. SZ Microgate was asked if their chips are fabbed at Sai Micro and the answer was no

每经AI快讯,有投资者在投资者互动平台提问:公司的TFSAW滤波器是什么工艺?和BAW滤波器一样也是mems工艺吗?公司同
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
是否有合作,让其为公司滤波器代工呢?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(300319.SZ)8月18日在投资者互动平台表示,公司TF-SAW采用MEMS工艺;公司目前未与
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
开展合作

The need for RF filters in China is huge
according to this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

进入5G时代后,由于叠加更多频段,滤波器对数量和频率的要求都提高了。一部5G手机在通信、WiFi、蓝牙、导航等功能上有着不同的信息交换频段,通常要集合数十颗甚至上百颗滤波器芯片,国内整体每年需要200亿颗滤波器芯片,其中低频滤波器90%以上从国外进口,价格更高的高频滤波器则无法自主生产。
China needs 20B rf filters/yr for mobile devices, wifi, bluetooth & navigation.
Keep in mind that Sanan says it has capacity for 150 million/month and looking to build it up to 500 million/month -> 6b/yr. Maybe by itself, Sanan can handle most of China's SAW filter demand.

according to this, they want to do a diamond based rf filter which can do 2-10GHz, that seems enough to satisfy basically any consumer product including the future 6G bands (right now, memsonics BAW filter can do 1.5-5GHz)
”7月15日,新乡经开区,河南科之诚第三代半导体碳基芯片有限公司负责人谢波玮说,由该公司研发的金刚石基2Ghz-10GHz高频射频滤波器已经完成核心技术攻关,即将实现量产。

looks like the keep here is to just keep diamond layer really thin (10 microns). Looks like they got all the basic tech down like 2-6 inch Diamond-on-Si wafer + oriented piezoelectric film preparation process and design of diamond-based RF filter
在实际攻关中,该公司突破了“大面积、高平整度金刚石薄膜沉积”“氮化铝多元素共掺杂、高平整度C轴择优取向薄膜”等技术难点,最终将设想变为了现实。

由于新技术使用的金刚石薄膜只有10微米,用料足够少。一块芯片的金刚石使用成本从以前的1000元降到了现在的0.1元,已可以进行规模化生产。

目前,科之诚已经申请了多项专利,掌握了2英寸-6英寸硅基金刚石薄膜制备工艺、2英寸-6英寸取向压电薄膜制备工艺和金刚石基射频滤波器芯片的设计、半导体工艺、封装、检测技术,并完成全工艺流片验证,这标志着核心技术攻关已经完成。

interesting, didn't know Henan produced 70% of world's super hard material
“世界超硬材料看中国,中国超硬材料看河南。”我省超硬材料产量占全球的70%以上,已经在全国和全球创下了多项“第一”,形成了以超硬材料及制品为核心、原辅材料和专用设备仪器为基础、公共技术服务体系为支撑的全产业链格局。

No kidding, Henan is capital of world's lab grown diamond production
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
“公司计划投资9.6亿元,分三期建设金刚石基滤波器芯片产业化项目。”谢波玮说。

初期阶段,科之诚计划投资6000万元,推出行业对标产品,实现金刚石基高频滤波器大规模量产。

“中期阶段,计划投资3亿元,建设硅基金刚石、AIN多层膜晶圆线,并用代工方式生产芯片,同时启动科创板上市。”谢波玮说。

后期阶段,计划投资6亿元,建设滤波器芯片全工艺流程IDM线,打造第三代半导体产业集群。
so unlike the other stuff we talked about, this is still an experiment project. Will take a while longer for 960m RMB to all be invested in this. I'm also curious what other project they can do since diamond is considered 4th gen semi material

Henan produces > 90% of world's diamond. think about that and what this could bring. If people thought Gallium was dominated, just wait until they see diamond
谢波玮介绍,河南是超硬材料大省,金刚石产量占到全球90%以上。近年来,河南省不断推进金刚石应用领域创新。由科之诚研发的滤波器芯片从中科院到河南落地,为金刚石产业在声光电领域的应用探索出一个重要方向,将有力推动河南超硬材料产业高质量发展。

keep an eye on this
 

nongmina

Just Hatched
Registered Member
I actually think the US is doing China a favour by blocking some of those acquisition deals. Because even if the deal was approved at the time,the local Gov can still force Chinese companies to split it later,which happens alot these days. The Chinese companies will just end up lose money and cannot anything back to China.
The local Gov force Chinese companies to split it is just because the hegemony force the local Govs to do that~
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
One thing that seems quite obvious from researching on Chinese RF suppliers is that they all had explosive growth in revenue up until 2021, flattened and started dropping in 2022 (at least that's the case for ones around longer), but things are starting to come back up

One example is Maxscend
they had 4.5B RMB in revenue in 2021, but just 3.6B in 2022 (Q3/Q4 were particularly bad). This Q1, they were down to over 700m before recovering to over 900m in Q2

One bright spot is that they haven't stopped researching or trying to expand. In the case of Maxscend
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
It's R&D reached 12% of revenue in 2022
2020-2022年,卓胜微3年间研发投入分别为1.82亿元、3.04亿元、4.49亿元,分别占营收比例6.53%、6.57%、12.22%,
and it transitioned from fabless to fablite
次年3月31日,卓胜微发布《关于拟进一步对外投资签署合作协议的公告》,同意对芯卓半导体产业化建设项目追加投资27亿元,以进一步扩充SAW滤波器晶圆制造和射频模组封装测试产能及厂房及配套设施建设。

至此,“芯卓项目”总投资达到了35亿元。众所周知,自建产线掌握未来产能的同时,也意味着卓胜微要加大固定资产投入,客观上也对其利润进行了拉低。

卓胜微年报显示,“芯卓项目”已成功搭建国际先进的6英寸滤波器生产线。2022年第一季度6英寸滤波器产线进入工艺通线阶段,第二季度进入小批量生产阶段。截至2022年12月31日,其自建的滤波器产线已经全面进入规模量产阶段。卓胜微表示,预计大规模量产后,将为公司带来较为明显的规模优势。

此外,卓胜微还在6英寸滤波器产线的基础上,通过添置先进设备,构建技术团队,逐步推进打造12英寸IPD滤波器产品的生产制造能力。目前,其IPD 滤波器产品已完成工艺通线及产品级验证进入小批量生产阶段。
Not really sure the production rate, but 3.5B is not chump change for a company generating just 4B a year. It's not clear to me what IPD filter is. But rumors were that they had maybe 10k wpm of capacity by end of last year. So that's a good initial mass production for this year.

Looks like its own production has met customer requirement. I assume that as yield gets better, it will also be able to supply more. The long term goal is for Chinese fabs to self supply all the SAW/TC-SAW filter needed by China market. And it's already used in various more complicated front end modules. L-Difem integrates filters, duplexors, switches & LNAs IIRC
另一方面,卓胜微SAW滤波器产品的工艺研发平台建设已全部完成,产品各项性能指标满足客户要求,并已通过大部分品牌客户稽核;自产的SAW滤波器和高性能滤波器已进入规模量产阶段,双工器和四工器已处于向客户送样推广阶段;集成自产滤波器的DiFEM、L-DiFEM、GPS模组等产品已处于客户端量产导入阶段。(校对/刘沁宇)

So this has to be goal. Being able to supply all the domestic phone companies. Once you do that, you take 50% of the market. Of course once you get there, then you are also fully independent for all the other chips that require connectivity with wifi, bluebooth, nfc or anything else
 

measuredingabens

Junior Member
Registered Member
it means to need higher power ,Do china has high EUV sources?
Olalavn has posted a 400w LPP EUV fibre laser light source being tested earlier in the year. There's also CIOMP's own light source and the that might fit the requirements. Tsinghua's SSMB light source would most definitely fulfill those power requirements should it work out, but that is likely to come a bit later than the other two.
 

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
Well said. Chinese companies like Huawei and Phytium,should leave the ARM camp ASAP. Continue to design ARM based processor is a dead end.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

面对上游霸权高压,爆发者有之,沉默者有之,待时而动者或许亦不鲜见。相对来说,始终按兵不动的国产ARM厂商显得分外无奈。
众所周知,国产
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
中的华为与飞腾两大ARM厂商已经断供多年,持续迭代之路基本阻断,仅靠原有芯片库存支应绝非长久之计。但是国内ARM存量市场何其庞大,千辛万苦建立起来的用户规模和生态基础,想要一朝改换门庭谈何容易。
前段时间曝出鲲鹏与飞腾生态合并的消息,不难猜测这是国产ARM临危抱团稳了一手,期望以生态扩张和芯片共享的形式,延缓ARM版本停滞及库存危机,两大厂商暂时还未下出关键的胜负手。
风雨飘摇中稳字当头的选择毋庸置喙。但是市场风云诡谲不可不察,国产ARM的现实问题正在变得越来越糟。
最近ARM方面有新消息传出,除对
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
等少数几家特殊的厂商外,Arm或对其他CPU厂商采取更严格的授权限制,即如果使用了Arm的CPU核,那么使用
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
、NPU、ISP等IP核必须全部采用Arm的技术,不得使用第三方架构,否则将无法获得授权。对国产CPU厂商来说,原本就渺茫的授权获取希望已成绝望。
伴随着版本停滞的时间拉长,国产ARM与主流芯片性能的差距也将越来越大。对内,阿里、
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
、中兴等厂商已拿到ARM V9版本,相较于V8.2提升了约30%的综合性能,即便鲲鹏等厂商可以通过微调改进、堆核等方式强行弥补,但也会造成成本上的巨大压力。
对外,X86的综合性能一向领先,ARM V9排除功耗优势外也很难与其比肩,落后整整一代的ARM V8.2只会将国产ARM拽入深渊。
另外,已经将目光瞄向ARM存量市场的RISC-V又岂能甘附骥尾,其迅猛的发展势头不仅为中国厂商带来了希望,也给困守孤岛的国产ARM带来更大的危机感。
试想一下,接下来如高通等ARM厂商纷纷揭竿而起另立山头,再有RISC-V阵营快速崛起赶超,若只有国产ARM厂商原地踯躅,届时相关厂商的处境将变得无比尴尬。
很难讲现在的高通是不是干了国产厂商最该干的事,不管前路如何,留给国产ARM的窗口期真的不多了。

Facing the high pressure of upstream hegemony, there are those who break out, those who are silent, and those who wait for the time to move may not be uncommon. Relatively speaking, the domestic ARM manufacturers who have been holding back all the time seem extremely helpless.

As we all know, Huawei and Phytium, the two major ARM manufacturers of domestic CPUs, have been out of supply for many years, and the road to continuous iteration is basically blocked. Relying on the original chip inventory is by no means a long-term solution. However, the domestic ARM stock market is so huge, and the user scale and ecological foundation established through untold hardships, it is not easy to change the door once.

Some time ago, the news of the ecological merger between Kunpeng and Feiteng was exposed. It is not difficult to guess that this is the domestic ARM holding together in the face of danger. It is expected to delay the stagnation of the ARM version and the inventory crisis in the form of ecological expansion and chip sharing. The two major manufacturers have not released yet. Make the key winner.

There is no doubt about the choice of the word "steady" in the wind and rain. However, the market situation is treacherous, and the actual problems of domestic ARM are getting worse.

Recently, there is new news from ARM. Except for a few special manufacturers such as Apple and Samsung, Arm may adopt stricter authorization restrictions on other CPU manufacturers, that is, if Arm’s CPU core is used, then the use of GPU, NPU , ISP and other IP cores must all use Arm technology, and third-party architectures are not allowed, otherwise they will not be authorized. For domestic CPU manufacturers, the originally slim hope of obtaining authorization has become hopeless.

With the prolonged version stagnation, the performance gap between domestic ARM and mainstream chips will also become wider and wider. Internally, manufacturers such as Ali, Xiaomi, and ZTE have obtained the ARM V9 version, which has improved the overall performance by about 30% compared with V8.2. There will be enormous pressure on costs.

Externally, the comprehensive performance of X86 has always been leading, and it is difficult for ARM V9 to match it except for its power consumption advantage. ARM V8.2, which is a whole generation behind, will only drag domestic ARM into the abyss.

In addition, how can RISC-V, which has already set its sights on the ARM stock market, be willing to follow suit? Its rapid development momentum not only brings hope to Chinese manufacturers, but also brings a greater sense of crisis to the domestic ARM that is trapped in an isolated island. .

Just imagine, ARM manufacturers such as Qualcomm will rise up one after another, and the RISC-V camp will rise rapidly to catch up. If only domestic ARM manufacturers stay in place, the situation of relevant manufacturers will become extremely embarrassing.

It's hard to say whether the current Qualcomm has done what domestic manufacturers should do most. No matter what the road ahead is, the window period left for domestic ARM is really running out.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
View attachment 116770

Yes Gree is setting up its own SiC production line. Crazy huh?

Gree to invest 5.5B RMB to build its own SiC production line & packaging/testing line To produce 240k 6-inch SiC wpy & production will start in 2024/09 Will supply NEVs, PVs, ESSs, super chargers, ACs & industrial product

Very interesting to see even electric giants get into SiC production. Just shows the concerns about being cut off from foreign supplies
After this, looks like Gree is also setting up their own GaA production line

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

格力集团消息显示,今年3月,格力金投与中芯聚源联合领投华芯半导体,助力华芯珠海核心团队完成数亿元融资,"以投促引"推动华芯(珠海)半导体砷化镓总部研产基地项目落户珠海,并在珠海投资建设总投资约34亿元、产能达1.5万片/月的6寸砷化镓晶圆代工厂。

同时,格力集团通过旗下建设投资板块出资约6.21亿元,为华芯半导体分两期建设总计容建面约8.26万平方米的定制化5.0产业新空间。该项目预计2024年7月具备入驻条件、9月试投产,满产后年产值可达32亿元
looks like they want to spend 3.4B RMB on a 15k wpm 6-inch GaA factory in Zhuhai. Goal of starting production in Sep of 2024
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

In the first half of the year, Jingsheng's net profit increased by 447% year-on-year, and it won repeated and bulk orders from major domestic customers​

On August 18, Jingsheng shares released its financial report for the first half of 2023. The company achieved operating income of 114.3605 million yuan in the first half of the year, an increase of 75.79% over the same period of the previous year; realized a net profit attributable to shareholders of listed companies of 15.0877 million yuan , an increase of 447.17% over the same period of the previous year; the realized net profit attributable to shareholders of listed companies after deducting non-recurring gains and losses was 8.0116 million yuan, an increase of 379.63% over the previous year.
Jingsheng shares said that the performance growth is mainly due to the scale cost benefits brought about by the increase in sales revenue and cost control. In the first half of the year, the gross profit margin of main business sales was 35.44%, an increase of 1.16 percentage points over the same period last year.
Specifically, Jingsheng shares have formed a core technology independently developed, and covered silicon wafer manufacturers and domestic leading enterprises or mainstream customers of silicon carbide substrates. , Shengong, Hejing Technology, Sanan Optoelectronics, Tony Electronics, BYD and other well-known enterprises have established cooperative relations, and obtained repeated and batch orders from customers, forming a strong customer resource advantage over other crystal growth equipment companies.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top