Chinese semiconductor industry

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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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Bellum_Romanum said:
YMTC isn't cost competitive, but their government has subsidized them to the tune of $24B to date. This funding has enabled YMTC to exist and build fabs where a normal free market company would have folded long ago. They also have predatory pricing and undercut the industry so they can take market share (which is illegal). This type of mercantilism really distorts the market and is a huge threat to South Korea as a country.

People cry foul against these export bans against China because it doesn't uphold true free market principles, but the reason the export bans exist is because China isn't upholding free market principles.
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they have access to YMTC internal financials? in the comment they think it's because 2 wafers = more expensive than 1 wafer, duhhhh. But most of the cost is in processing a wafer and in wasted yield, not in the actual raw wafer.

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A 180 nm processed wafer only costs $1650 USD.

So process simplification >>> added raw wafers cost.
 
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european_guy

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mmkc said:
What about SMEE producing a better DUV or EUV machine or producing advanced chips without using any litho DUV/EUV equipment ? Also is it true that Nikon & Canon making inroads in CHN ? Grateful for your insights.
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Sorry, I am not an expert here. I know there are alternative technologies like nanoimprint or e-beam lithography, but have been there since always and never took off.

What SMEE does is very opaque and secret at the moment, they have very good reasons to keep it reserved until they have a machine in volume production, that's why I can understand they are not in production yet, but that's all I can say.

Nikon? Well the day US bans ASML, the day after Nikon & Canon will also be banned. So it is not a real alternative in case of a ban, is just an illusion.

IMO it is on SMEE that China has to bet all its cards.

Bellum_Romanum said:
YMTC isn't cost competitive, but their government has subsidized them to the tune of $24B to date. This funding has enabled YMTC to exist and build fabs where a normal free market company would have folded long ago. They also have predatory pricing and undercut the industry so they can take market share (which is illegal). This type of mercantilism really distorts the market and is a huge threat to South Korea as a country.

People cry foul against these export bans against China because it doesn't uphold true free market principles, but the reason the export bans exist is because China isn't upholding free market principles.
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I'm sorry for South Korea, but the fact that someone from the chaebol system's nation accuses other governments of supporting their companies is quite amusing. Samsung would have not been allowed to be Samsung in any other nation in the world, even not in Japan.

And anyhow, there is a tech war ongoing between US and China. A tech war is when foreign governments (like US) go against single private companies (like Huawei and hundreds more in entity list) outside of the scope of any international treat or commercial law. China defends its companies as it should do and aims at technology independence as it really should do.
 
Bellum_Romanum

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Nutrient said:
The USA did everything you decry when it was developing. According to
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, "Like Franklin, Alexander Hamilton was present at the creation. And because of a series of reports he authored as the first secretary of the Treasury, Hamilton is widely (and rightly) considered the founder of American industrial policy. In his Report on Manufactures, Hamilton outlined a system that included tariffs, subsidies, and investments. First, imposing tariffs, bans on some foreign goods, and prohibitions on exporting certain materials would protect and promote the development of infant industry in America. Subsidies, prizes, and exemptions from duties would encourage private investment in particular sectors. And nurturing discovery and investing in infrastructure would bring innovation and growth." (Emphasis added.)

Yes, Alexander Hamilton was one of the US's founding fathers -- you can see his signature on the Constitution.

Why should China be condemned for doing what the USA did?
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That comment I posted was taken or lifted verbatim from the comment section of the article. I was supposed to write an LOL at the end of that hilarious whiny comment but chose to leave it out to see what the more knowledgeable members of this forum would say in response.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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sunnymaxi said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568848445460578304

olalavn​

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I really hate this kind of clock bait titles. Even the author admits in her tweet that china is putting a lot of resources in and could get there. But the headlines were phrased in a way to make china sound evil and incompetent.

Even when they talk about china building foundries, it refers to them all as mature nodes and fail to acknowledge all the advanced new fans that smic has under construction. Do they realize that smic will be a top 3 fab in the world in a couple of years? Most likely not. I would be long smic stock and shorting tsmc right now.

I guess it will hurt a lot of people's feelings that 5 nm will probably start production in china before America or that there will be far more 5 nm capacity in china even once Arizona fab fully ramps up. Just wait until 2023 when an article will come out that smic has fabricated 5 nm chips.
 
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