Chinese Rail Transport Appreciation & News

RoastGooseHKer

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The big construction cost difference is higher speed tracks require larger minimum turning radius, which can result in more tunnels and viaducts in mountainous areas and higher land acquisition costs in populated areas. The Lanzhou-Urumqi high speed rail is mostly over flat unpopulated desert areas where lower speed rail's ability to snake around difficult terrain and dense urban areas has minimal cost benefits. Construction cost for Lanzhou-Urumqi high speed rail works out to only
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, far lower than the average construction cost of
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for Chinese high speed rail overall (which includes a lot of 250km/h rail).

In the chart below, notice how many 250km/h and even 200km/h projects actually have higher construction costs than a lot of 350km/h projects.
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I think the most expensive HSR corridor ever built in China per km wise is the Yichang - Chongqing section of the Shanghai-Chengdu corridor. There are simply too many mountain ranges (like Three Gorges, Fuling, where the 816 wgpu project was located) to bore through. God knows how many TBM shields were spent. Unfortunately, given then unsolvable engineering challenges encountered in the late 2000s, the Yichang-Wanzhou section has a strict speed limit of <200kph, pretty much slowing down the supposed HSR traffic to a crawl (but still faster than the unnamable country’s Acela).
 

RoastGooseHKer

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It is totally wrong to look at such infrastructure from the lens of profitability which is a western/capitalism/privatism standing point. I am sure you grow up in such enviroment. China is none of them ever.

In a society where state is paramount, the state (King, Emperor or President) acts as head of a family. Some brothers live and work in the city like the eastern populations you mentioned, others live and work in the country-side managing summer house, farm lands etc. The father is responsible to make sure all members have the same living standard. To sustain a equal living condition for the forest house as in center of a mega city is NOT a business, nor is the father going to make a profit from himself or his children, nor is any children to complain about each other spending undue money.

Another example is China's "telephone to every village and later 4G to every village" programs. This will never happen in a capitalist country because operators will never build fibre lines or cell towers that does not make profit.

In short, China's seemingly "costly/wasteful" infrastructure program is like a person buying a summer house at high price for leasure. In the west it is a money making business of a property owner lending out apartments to tenants.

That is not to say that China ignores economic consideration, but that is like how one would consider where and how much to pay his summer house.

Not really right. the cost difference is the operation (electricity cost), not much of the line. 350 train and 250 trains are nearly the same cost to produce, but running at 350kmph consumes much more electricity than running at 250kmph. What was done was building 350 capable infrastructure at similar cost of 250 line and run at 250kmph to save electricity. It may further reduce to 200kmph because of the strong side wind that is frequent in the Hexi coridor and desert. There was many times that trains (any type) were forced to stop due to such wind. But in calm days, you can run up to 250.
True. But if you look at the bigger picture with regards to the Lanzhou-Xinjiang (actually Baoji-Xinjiang corridor since the mountain ranges begin at Baoji), freight and transportation of strategic materials matter a lot more on this corridor than passenger services. Also, the wind and sand storm problem you mentioned pretty much plagues all railways in Xinjiang and Gansu. There is even a famous video of a train plowing through sand-covered tracks on the Hetian-Ruoqiang line.

Generally speaking, to brain storm a bit, if you were able to rewind the clock back to the early 2010s, wouldn’t quadrupling the numbers of 160kph capable conventional tracks on the existing Lanxin and Longhai Railways from Urumqi all the way to Xi’an (or even to Zhengzhou, or to Xuzhou and Lianyungang port) be a more viable option? And this would be done whilst the Xuzhou-Xi’an 350kph HSR would still be built. Ideally if you could have quadrupled tracks linking the Kazakh border and the port of Lianyungang facing Yellow Sea, wouldn’t that better facilitate the Belt and Road Initiative?
 

zbb

Junior Member
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Generally speaking, to brain storm a bit, if you were able to rewind the clock back to the early 2010s, wouldn’t quadrupling the numbers of 160kph capable conventional tracks on the existing Lanxin and Longhai Railways from Urumqi all the way to Xi’an (or even to Zhengzhou, or to Xuzhou and Lianyungang port) be a more viable option? And this would be done whilst the Xuzhou-Xi’an 350kph HSR would still be built. Ideally if you could have quadrupled tracks linking the Kazakh border and the port of Lianyungang facing Yellow Sea, wouldn’t that better facilitate the Belt and Road Initiative?
Rail capacity is maximized when you can densely pack the line with trains all running at the same speed. When there are trains of very different speeds on the same line, the number of trains you can run is vastly reduced as you need very large headways (time/distance intervals) between slow freight trains and fast passenger trains. Freight trains are also most efficient when they are superlong/superheavy and travel long distances with minimal number of stops since it takes a very long time for such superheavy freight trains to accelerate and decelerate. Frequent stops are also costly in terms of energy and equipment wear, e.g. on brakes. However, when you have slow freight trains and fast passenger trains running on the same line, the slow freight trains will have to frequently pull into side tracks at stations/yards and stop to let the fast passenger trains pass.

The key point missing from a lot of discussion about Chinese high-speed rail is that a dedicated high-speed passenger line along with a parallel dedicated freight line will have far higher total passenger and freight capacities than two conventional lines with mixed passenger and freight traffic. Building new dedicated high-speed passenger lines (and turning existing conventional lines into essentially dedicated freight lines) is by far the most cost effective way to increase both passenger and freight capacity, with the greater convenience and time savings from high-speed passenger rail travel just being a nice side bonus.
 

Taiban

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The new railway line will run between Hotan in East Turkestan (Xinjiang province) and Shigatse in Tibet over a distance of 2,000 kilometres. It will cost 400 billion yuan, or 200 million per kilometre, to build. The price tag makes it more than double that of the most expensive line currently under construction – a high-speed railway of 679 kilometres from Moscow to St Petersburg that is costing US$25.3 billion, the report noted.

The Xinjiang -Tibet Railway will pass through mountains, glaciers, frozen rivers and permafrost, with 62% consisting of bridges and tunnels, the report noted.

Construction will begin in November this year and will take 10 years to complete. Trains will travel at 120-160 kilometres an hour between these two remote regions of the People’s Republic of China where campaigns for autonomy or restoration of independence continue to haunt Beijing.


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Dante80

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the price tag makes it more than double that of the most expensive line currently under construction – a high-speed railway of 679 kilometres from Moscow to St Petersburg that is costing US$25.3 billion, the report noted.
What are they talking about? The first phase of the Cali HSR line alone is expected to cost more $130 billion by itself.
That is close to a TRILLION yuan for 795km of rail.

Also, it would be prudent to have the original article linked here. It misses part of the editorializing that the Delhi based tibetanreview.net adds to the story. I mean, having to read about occupied Tibet and East Turkestan should be a dead giveaway...

Here is the original article.

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cookiez

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CR200J CIT.
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NSG1256 rescue crane.
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Starlight Yanzhou tourist train.
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RoastGooseHKer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yulong Snow Mountain sightseeing train.
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CRRC Changchun maglev showcase.
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I don't think there re any planned maglev projects in place with service speed above the one connecting Shanghai Pudong airport and the city centre. Therefore, it will be a while before these two types of high-speed maglev trains entering operational service.
 

Michael90

Junior Member
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What are they talking about? The first phase of the Cali HSR line alone is expected to cost more $130 billion by itself.
That is close to a TRILLION yuan for 795km of rail.

Also, it would be prudent to have the original article linked here. It misses part of the editorializing that the Delhi based tibetanreview.net adds to the story. I mean, having to read about occupied Tibet and East Turkestan should be a dead giveaway...

Here is the original article.

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Yeah, i believe even Britains High speed rail is more expensive than this. Lol. Went from initial cost of $63billion to $93billion now. Delayed by years(from planned 2026 opening to now 2030s) and thats for just 215km. :(
 
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RoastGooseHKer

Junior Member
Registered Member
The new railway line will run between Hotan in East Turkestan (Xinjiang province) and Shigatse in Tibet over a distance of 2,000 kilometres. It will cost 400 billion yuan, or 200 million per kilometre, to build. The price tag makes it more than double that of the most expensive line currently under construction – a high-speed railway of 679 kilometres from Moscow to St Petersburg that is costing US$25.3 billion, the report noted.

The Xinjiang -Tibet Railway will pass through mountains, glaciers, frozen rivers and permafrost, with 62% consisting of bridges and tunnels, the report noted.

Construction will begin in November this year and will take 10 years to complete. Trains will travel at 120-160 kilometres an hour between these two remote regions of the People’s Republic of China where campaigns for autonomy or restoration of independence continue to haunt Beijing.


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It will indeed be the most strategic and militarily significant railway ever built. There needs to be an efficient way to shift troops back and forth between Tibet and Xinjiang. A single-track heavy rail with a focus on military and cargo transport would be ideal. There of course would be limited passenger traffic on this rail.
 
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