Chinese purchase of Su-35

tidalwave said:

From the articles I read, Japan doesn't care so much about SU35 but more about the 117S thrust vectoring tech being absorbed by China and then applied to already deadly J20.

Japan ATD-X only has ugly , junior level thrust vectoring like this

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The Japanese system is no whacky, it is the sympliest, but the one with the lowest thrust losses, most TVC nozles had slight longitudinal vectorial losses, well it is simple vectorial algebra.

Air Force Brat said:

Right, if you're talking about the SU-35s being purchased and flown to China, it doesn't just "show up on the ramp?" it takes cashola, and LOTS of it

Now if you're suggesting that China has already been doing all that research, and tomorrow or next week, or next year, they will pull a J-20 out to the flight line with OVT, that's NOT going to happen.

We have ONE production aircraft with OVT, the F-22 Raptor, and as our friend the Engineer always asks??? why, why if its so great don't we have F-15's, F-16's, and F-18s all "retro-fitted" with OVT. The long and short answer is?? its not worth the trouble.

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You aregument had a few holes.

Your F-15s and F-16s are practically old ladies, most of your F-16 and F-15s will crack once they get TVC nozzles, both India and Russia are inducting aircraft with TVC nozzles.

Same is algeria or belarus and several more contries see
khazakhaztan has Su-30SM with thrust vectoring


China and Su-35


Algeria

The answer is TVC enhances so many aspects of the performance and even stealth that represent big gains


PAKFA has tiny all moving fins thanks to it, so regardless you say it is not needed, most air forces buying Sukhoi aircraft are buying it and F-22 without will be a sitting duck, Rafale has showed it has the agility to match it .

There are enhancements in turn and roll rate worth to be highlight if you are trying to shake a AAM of of your tail, drag reduction benefits and tail reduction reflection to improve stealth.

Air Force Brat said:

YOU! be sure and post the first picture of the J-20 with OVT, Heh!, HEH!, HEH! I really don't think that's happening any time soon, they will be re-writing the WHOLE FCS program in order to do that ace, you have no idea what that would entail.

Not saying it couldn't happen??? but not very likely in the near term, for one thing, it would be a wholesale re-write of China's take on OVT, not a single bird that we have seen yet belonging to China wears OVT???

Japan's ATD-X is a serious aircraft, they have access to OVT if they are interested,,,,,

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The poster is just venting his frustration finding out that PLAAF still have to obtain Russian tech.

Basically PRC doesn't have the patience to do fundamental research and wants to cut corners not realizing that to move forward in advanced and applied technology you first need to actually understand what goes right and wrong in the fundamental stage.

SamuraiBlue said:

The poster is just venting his frustration finding out that PLAAF still have to obtain Russian tech.

Basically PRC doesn't have the patience to do fundamental research and wants to cut corners not realizing that to move forward in advanced and applied technology you first need to actually understand what goes right and wrong in the fundamental stage.

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You mean like how Japan is dependent on the US? Like Japan won't have to ask permission from the US to sell its stealth fighter because it's dependent on US technology?

AssassinsMace said:

You mean like how Japan is dependent on the US? Like Japan won't have to ask permission from the US to sell its stealth fighter because it's dependent on US technology?

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Aughh, Japan doesn't really need to ask since Japan already obtains it. The stealth coating utilized on the F-22 was originally developed in Japan for commercial application in case you didn't know.

SamuraiBlue said:

The poster is just venting his frustration finding out that PLAAF still have to obtain Russian tech.

Basically PRC doesn't have the patience to do fundamental research and wants to cut corners not realizing that to move forward in advanced and applied technology you first need to actually understand what goes right and wrong in the fundamental stage.

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That right there is red meat. I wonder how many bites you'll get. Either way while I do understand where you're coming from, your wording is just bait dude. Not cool.

SamuraiBlue said:

Aughh, Japan doesn't really need to ask since Japan already obtains it. The stealth coating utilized on the F-22 was originally developed in Japan for commercial application in case you didn't know.

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Oh yeah stealth paint is everything on a stealth fighter. Why doesn't Japan just paint all their fighters with this magnificent stealth paint and they'll be voila... stealth fighters and Japan won't have to waste billions on a stealth fighter program when it's all about the paint.

AssassinsMace said:

Oh yeah stealth paint is everything on a stealth fighter. Why doesn't Japan just paint all their fighters with this magnificent stealth paint and they'll be voila... stealth fighters and Japan won't have to waste billions on a stealth fighter program when it's all about the paint.

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Japanese design has no US input and RCS was tested in France. Still no points for you.

SamuraiBlue said:

Japanese design has no US input and RCS was tested in France. Still no points for you.

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Yeah hence why Japan has been begging for the US to sell them F-22s while buying F-35s... Japanese design zero, US design two.

SamuraiBlue said:

The poster is just venting his frustration finding out that PLAAF still have to obtain Russian tech.

Basically PRC doesn't have the patience to do fundamental research and wants to cut corners not realizing that to move forward in advanced and applied technology you first need to actually understand what goes right and wrong in the fundamental stage.

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Ummm...you do know China had already conducted ground tests of TVC nozzles as early as 2006, right?