Chinese purchase of Su-35


Sunday at 7:31 AM
Your post is full of contradiction. First of I never said anything about Russia not needing any new arms and secondly I consider su35 to be new. So you're saying Russia desperately need new arms but on the next sentence you say ruaf doesn't want em ?!

Who said anything about urgency? Like you said it's obviously not urgent on China's part that's why the rumor mill has been going on for years. All I know is SU35 cost more than $30M.

I reacted to the last sentence Sunday at 1:40 PM
LOL I accidentally noticed

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which describes cheering by the Governor of Khabarovsk Krai (the region where the Su-35s are produced) at the contract, which is mostly desbelieved here but that's not the point, who said the price should be in between 83 and 85 million Rubles thus amounting to about two billion Rubles for those 24 airplanes (or no-airplanes :) so, looking at google

1 Russian ruble =
0.015464 U.S. dollars

and taking the average of what this individual said (to a ТАСС correspondent, November 19):
0.015464*80 which is 1.2371 (about one point two) million dollars ... production cost?
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
Sure, it is a strange deal.
I mean the Su-35 will also take years until they enter service. Using the engines for the J-20 also doesn't really fix any fundamental problems and re-engineering also takes time and we are also only talking about the 117S.

How likely is it that the Su-35s are just supposed to replace older Russian made aircraft in service?
 

supercat

Major
If we calm down and think about it, one of the simplest explanation for this deal is that this is just China's way of paying back Russia for their early termination of the Su-27SK deal and the unauthorized production of J-11. Hopefully, this deal will pave the way for more smooth China-Russia cooperation in the future, such as the heavy helicopter, and the Boeing 787-class C929.
 

b787

Captain
Sunday at 7:31 AM


I reacted to the last sentence Sunday at 1:40 PM
Jura come on, you are just joking, the Russian Ruble- USD Dollar parity is RUB 66 Rubles per USD dollar, if each aircraft cost 85 million rubles then a Su-35 will cost around less than USD $ 1.3 million dollars, that is totally false and i can prove it to you


The original article you quote does not say Rubles, it only says 85 millions and 2 billion
Стоимость одного истребителя оценивается в $83-85 млн, то есть общая сумма контракта может достигать $2 млрд
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Reports of deliveries made through 2002 and planned transfers of large quantities of aircraft of the Su-27/30 family permit a relatively accurate estimate of this segment of the AL-31F engine market. We use the average price of $2.8 million per engine. The actual price fluctuates between $2.7 million and $3 million, but some of the payments, especially in the early 1990s, were made by commodity deliveries or on a clearing basis. Twenty eight Su-27UBK combat trainers were delivered to China in 2000-2002 by way of payment of Russian government debts. We estimate the price of AL-31FP engines for Su-30MKIs at $3 million.
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So basically you are saying the Su-35 is cheaper than a Al-31 :) therefore i guess you were kidding;)
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
If we calm down and think about it, one of the simplest explanation for this deal is that this is just China's way of paying back Russia for their early termination of the Su-27SK deal and the unauthorized production of J-11. Hopefully, this deal will pave the way for more smooth China-Russia cooperation in the future, such as the heavy helicopter, and the Boeing 787-class C929.

Yeah, that's pretty much my line of thinking as well.

It would be pretty interesting to see some deeper China-Russia cooperation.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Since China is the first customers that means it hog up the production for a few years. Russia will deliver su35 in 2016, 2017, 2018 So, between Russia and China , all the su35 production will be eaten up by the two before 2020.

So countries like Vietnam, Indonesia , Malaysia won't able to get su35 before 2020 well, by that times, J20, J31 already in service full throttle.
 

Verum

Junior Member
I personally think there's many reasons to Su35 purchase, but mainly for tech transfers. But hold your horses before you get angry and attack me with your keyboard:)D), let me explain.

By tech transfer, I don't mean hand down or help to start, like China is to Pakistan, but more like UK/US in JSF program, I know a little more about this, you know a little more about that. China did advance in leaps and bounds in recent years, but decades of Soviet expertise is still useful. There must be some techs and even small tips from decades of sheer experiences, being used in Su35 that China still can learn from. In this case, many of those things can be transferred onto domestic models, like using airframe and avionic tech for J20/J16, engine tech from 117S for WS10/15, maybe even weapon tech for domestic Chinese weapons. It doesn't mean that China has to copy the whole engine or solely rely on Russians for engine production.

Another reason would be the relative low cost to its price. Currently Russian economy is hurting; and really hurting. So Russia would have to and it did, sell the plane at a very low price. According to RT, they're priced at only 83 million each, which is pretty cheap for a plane of this caliber. This is not much more than making them yourself, so why not take advantage of it. It's almost like buying the planes at cost and getting the tech transfer as a free bonus.

The third reason would probably be a geopolitical one. China wants to help Russia financially, so it could keep attracting all the heat from the West, instead of giving the West time to think about how to contain China.

That's just my two cents.
 
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