Chinese purchase of Su-35

b787 said:

it is more related to longer loiter time during CAP.　its cruising speed is supersonic, carries more fuel and has more range.

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Those are the details, which I do not disagree with -- but I'm still a little confused as to why you were quoting my post originally.
Were you challenging certain notions I was making or did you agree with my assertions and were trying to add to them?

b787 said:

Russia has more advanced Radars than FGA-35
here one by NIIPP Tomks.

Irbis in only used to cheapen the Su-35 and expedite its operational capability

You are looking at the flat AESA technology by NIIPP Tomsk...........

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Hard to imagine one can cheapen the Su35 anymore than it already is.
Russia is the only major aviation power still struggling to field an operational AESA even on their flattened Flanker T50.

Bltizo said:

Those are the details, which I do not disagree with -- but I'm still a little confused as to why you were quoting my post originally.
Were you challenging certain notions I was making or did you agree with my assertions and were trying to add to them?

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only trying to add more infomation

Schumacher said:

Hard to imagine one can cheapen the Su35 anymore than it already is.
Russia is the only major aviation power still struggling to field an operational AESA even on their flattened Flanker T50.

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Russia has operational AESAs for example S-400

VHF AESA technology has entered production as part of the 55Zh6M Nebo-M multiband radar complex, which passed State tests in 2011 and is in production for Russian air defense forces against a 100-system order

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And has AESAs flying in PAKFA

Sukhoi says it has started testing an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar on its fifth-generation T-50 PAK-FA fighter in a statement issued on 8 August.

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b787 said:

my respect to you, i read the beginning of this thread and you were the only one with a cool unbiased view, in fact you said that the deal was very likely true in 2012

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Yes, some are - including myself - a bit over-emotional in regard to this contract, as I tried to explain already on Monday:

Anyway in regard to the ongoing discussion if true, if useful, if necesary or not, I beg to take the reports this time a bit "more" seriously than the other ones before, since this time - YES, so far only Russian reports - admit that the deal was signed, which is a bit more than "still under discussion". Agreed, it is not confirmed like we would like to, but I really can't think that the Russians will embarrass themselves simply by telling us in a few weeks: "upps, sorry guys ... that all was a false report !"

In general I agree with You that this deal is only fully confirmed if confirmed by a Chinese authoritive source ... but that could also be very late or even never since there's no need for the PLAAF to do so. Was the Il-78 purchase ever officially confirmed for example ??

Even more I beg You all to take into consideration that there might be reasons behind - if true - beyond our own thinkings. May these be simply political support, technology cooperation or transfer, ... I have the feeling that for some here this deal simply could not be since it isn't allowed to be. The J-11D, J-16 and other techological progess aside ...

Deino

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However due to the too wild discussion then going on it was removed/deleted.


By the way ... are there already report about when the first aircraft will be delivered ?


Deino

Deino said:

Yes, some are - including myself - a bit over-emotional in regard to this contract, as I tried to explain already on Monday:



However due to the too wild discussion then going on it was removed/deleted.


By the way ... are there already report about when the first aircraft will be delivered ?


Deino

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do not worry, is just an airplane, i just said that because he kept his cool, even as he said he did not like the deal, but he was open to see the possibility, in that we must admit he was really calm and made a good analysis, any way is just an aircraft nothing else, by the way since you are German i like German aircraft a lot, specially WWII, the Ar-234 is one of my favorites i have a 1/144 model and i love it, and German Music is also my favorite one, i usually like German modern music.

Thanks and indeed tphuang is one very rational one ... however IMO not only one, there are surely a few more tha come into my mind and that's what I like here in contrast to so many other forums.

I for myself, I'm surely most often to impatient and too much emotional enthusiastic ... so that I sometimes loose a clear mind.

Anyway - and regarding German music, ... I prefer the Classis !

Deino

Su-35 falls into the "nice to have" category to me. That is, as long as the terms are right. The long negotiation process shows that.

There are certainly geopolitical reasons behind this deal. Technically I see it as "batch evaluation", to get some ideas or techniques into their own products. China may have bettered Russia in certain areas but let's be honest Russia still have some tricks up in their sleeves and you have to respect that. China had been too self-centered in the past which only contributed to her decline and she would not make the same mistake again. This shows that Chinese planners are open minded and practical, even a bit too conservative to my taste. Two billion dollar is no small amount but it's somthing China can afford.

I doubt China would want to fit Su-35 engines onto J-20. That is, as long as WS-15 goes along well.

TVC is interesting but I think China have the capabilty to do it alone if needed, just like on rockets. But it certainly helps if you have a real product at hand so that you can evaluate its efectiveness and whether it's worth it. I actually doubt that J-20 will be equipped with TVC.

Would this deal make some people see J-20 as less sexy? I don't know but these two don't really serve the exact same role.

Deino said:

Thanks and indeed tphuang is one very rational one ... however IMO not only one, there are surely a few more tha come into my mind and that's what I like here in contrast to so many other forums.

I for myself, I'm surely most often to impatient and too much emotional enthusiastic ... so that I sometimes loose a clear mind.

Anyway - and regarding German music, ... I prefer the Classis !

Deino

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You are too humble there, Deino.

There was imo a pretty good source on Chinese bbs at the time saying this is an aircraft that PLAAF wanted back a few years ago, so I always thought there is a good chance this deal will happen. I also wouldn't be surprised if they order another batch of 24 after the first delivery is completed. And I don't like some posts here about how this is China throwing a bone to the Russians. To me, all indications seem to be that they like certain aspects of Su-35, especially the engine and radar, and the capability of Su-35 as a whole. Especially the 117S engine, which is not any kind of breakthrough technology, but better than anything PLAAF has and maybe they will buy some more of it for other fighter jets. You are certainly not buying su-35 to counter 5th generation threats, but China is still amassing a huge quantity of flankers, so there is no reason they can't buy something that's better than what SAC is producing now.

Any word on ToT with the Su-35 purchase?