Chinese military exports to other countries
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Makes sense especially if you want to mount optics. The sight base on a QBZ 95/97 series is so high even on the digital soldier systems shown by the Chinese that mounted optical sights came with a cheek riser.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Importers have already send word to Norinco that Canadian customers want better ergonomics especially when it comes to installing sights to rifle and deletion of carrying handle. Should not be too hard to design... just delete carrying handle and install rails on it's place.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Qbz series always was a little weird. I mean it was designed in the early nineties yet its design external features are of the seventies and early eighties. Intact externally it could pass for a near clone of the Lapa FA Madelo 03 a weapon twenty years its senior. When you compare it to other arms Introduced around the same time... Its a head scratcher. Maybe norinco will listen or maybe they will tow the line and ignore.
If they did take the cannooks advice perhaps it might catch on in China and result in a QBZ95G2
If they did take the cannooks advice perhaps it might catch on in China and result in a QBZ95G2
This is a very good article, posted on one of the Chinese websites. The article gave very first hand detail of signing the first Chinese fighter export contract. The head of delegation only had US$5.00 travelling to Egypt. They signed 50 J-6's export contract for US$130 million plus US$30 million for other services.
Sorry, I don't have time to translate the article. Forgive me using auto translation. If someone have the time, please translate it.
原载：《Share 分享》口述∣刘国民录音整理∣李都供图∣中航国际老干办
提到中航国际的历史，不能不说刘国民。这不仅仅因为他曾经是公司的领军人物， 还在于他那传奇般的个人经历。
编者按：
中国共产党的优秀党员、中国航空工业进出口事业的先驱和卓越领导者、中华人民共和国原第三机械工业部外事局副局长、原中国航空工业总公司总经济师，原中国航空技术进出口总公司总经理、名誉董事长刘国民同志，因病医治无效，于2013年5月21日17时15分在北京逝世，享年79岁。刘国民同志是中航技公司的开创者和奠基人之一，长期担任重要领导职务，为中国军贸事业的起步发展和中国航空工业走向世界贡献了毕生精力!
本刊特刊登由李都整理的一篇刘国民同志的回忆录，谨表对刘国民同志的敬意与怀念。
1979年1月，埃及副总理图哈密来访，表达了对中国飞机的实际需求，并在与邓小平副总理的会谈中了解到，中国将不再对外“无偿援助”而要收“成本费”了。这年2月，中国驻埃及大使馆突然来了封电报，告知埃及航空公司的苏制AN-24飞机要大修，听说中国生产的Y-7飞机与此相同，询问能否给予帮助？时任三机部部长吕东敏锐地看到了这是一个机会，他知道，刚刚成立的中航技公司要去埃及卖飞机，写个报告上报何时能批下来还很难说。走正规渠道通过外交部跟我驻埃及使馆联系，再转告埃及主管部门，经层层请示汇报后，最后可能什么事情也办不成了。于是吕部长拍板，即便没有批件，也要利用这次埃及航空公司主动向我们咨询的机会走出去寻商机。如果为此要承担责任，那么这个责任就由他来负。于是我们在没有任何文件也没有向国家有关部门报批的情况下组了团，部领导指定我来当团长。虽然代表团成员中有西飞公司派出的Y-7飞机专家装装门面，但主力人员还是来自打算向埃及出口飞机的国内生产厂。3月份代表团就上路了，你看是不是很紧迫啊？
之所以有如此紧迫感，也可以说是“憋”出来的。那时候我个人在部里还只是个“小兵”，但我们那些老同志可是憋了几十年，终于在改革开放中等来了发展机遇。中航技公司的首任党委书记赵光琛，上世纪六十年代初曾经在前苏联常驻过，他知道我要出去，便利用在苏联与我外贸部门建立起的私人关系，从中技公司那里借了一本一般贸易的合同文本，供我们谈判作参考。行前吕东部长专门把我找去叮嘱道：“刘国民同志，我们现在缺的是美元。你们这次出去，哪怕挣回一个美元都是好的。”我从老部长那语重心长的一席话中，领会到了部党组的意图和期望。
我们一行飞到了开罗，被埃及航空公司接去仅谈了一天。当对方得知我们没有安东诺夫公司颁发的修理AN-24飞机的授权证，便礼貌地中断了谈判，而这正合我们的意，本来我们到这里谈民机大修，就是一个出国借口。于是谢绝了航空公司招待我们游览金字塔等名胜古迹的安排，当晚就住进了中国驻埃及大使馆。
中航技公司能淘到“第一桶金”，首先在于我们碰上了一位好大使。时任中国驻埃及的特命全权大使是姚广，你如果写我们拿下埃及军贸大单的故事，一定要提一下这位有着传奇经历的外交官。他和我们吕部长一样，都是1937 年入党的老党员、老革命。 时至今日，公司在海外的“国际化开拓”，都离不开我国驻外使领馆的大力支持。要说“军功章”中有他们的一半，一点都不为过!
我去大使官邸拜访了姚大使，见面之后我拿出笔记本，根据上面的记录，原原本本向大使汇报了小平同志在北京会见埃及副总理图哈密的详细情况——这些都是吕东部长在三机部里传达的，我现场做的记录。我之所以说我们中航技公司很幸运，碰上了一位好大使，就在于姚广听了我的汇报之后，以他敏锐的政治眼光和对国内形势的准确判断与把握，完全相信了我这个外交系统之外的小人物所口头转达的国家大领导的战略思维。可以说，当时姚大使如果打一句官腔，没有通过外交正式渠道认可就来到此地的我们，就不得不打道回府了。
姚大使当即表示，使馆将全力支持我们。并且对我说：“我立刻就跟图哈密先生联系。”就这样，在大使的亲自过问下，我们出访小组与埃及政府和军方接上了头。两天之后，埃及军方就把我们从中国大使馆接出，安排住进一座公寓楼，还专门调了一辆车供我们使用。不过即便如此，我们也几乎每天都要到使馆去汇报谈判进展情况。
我反复强调，没有我驻外使领馆的大力支持，我们中航技公司在外面将一事无成，这是发自内心的。驻埃及使馆支持我们到什么程度？据我回忆，姚广大使曾经13次亲自听我们的工作进展汇报，并和我们坐在一起研究对外谈判的策略。他还对我们开放了使馆的会议室，并且把会议室钥匙都交给了我们。姚大使对我说：“小刘，这段时间这个会议室就归你们使用了。请放心，会议室经过了外交部安保部门的严密检查，你们在里面讨论问题，保证不会被埃方窃听。”
由于我们经常早出晚归，姚大使特别指示“代办”——也就是中国大使馆的二把手，负责关照我们进出使馆。好几次我们半夜回来，代办亲自拿钥匙给我们打开使馆大门，“回家”的那一刻，那种温馨的感受是我难以用言语来表达的。还有，当时出国我们没有打字机，当需要用打字机来打印商贸文件时，使馆的武官便亲自上阵充当“打字员”。我们在外面吃不惯埃及的饭，使馆食堂的大师傅还为我们包饺子。什么叫“祖国是赴海外人员的坚强后盾？”这就是!所以每当我们回到中华人民共和国驻埃及大使馆的门口， 看见那面鲜红的五星红旗，内心深处激情涌动……
同埃及方面的谈判，僵持在“付款”上。以前中国是“白给”，现在要钱了，而且我坚决执行吕东部长的指示，要美元!这个弯子让人家转过来需要有一个过程，而且也需要一点时间。
谈判桌上我据理力争，我说你们有一条苏伊士运河，过往船只是要留下“买路钱”的，而且你收的都是“硬通货”。你们现在人均GDP 超过了1000美元，可我们还不到300美元。我们比你们穷，白跟我们要说不过去呀!况且中国收的仅仅是个“成本费”，没挣你们的钱……
后来埃及人看到我们态度坚决，要东西不给钱看来不行了，其首席谈判官——是一个准将，时任埃及空军装备部副部长，在谈判桌上突然给我提了一个问题，说你们想要的是“自由外汇”还是“记账贸易”？坦率地说，那时的我还搞不大清楚国际贸易支付的一些专业细节，但我连犹豫都没犹豫就脱口而出，要“FREE DOLLAR!”——因为在我脑海里，吕东部长的重托印象太深了——“一个美元都是好的”，何况这个合同我们要是真能拿下来的话，岂止一个美元，那个“一”的后面，肯定要挂上好多个“0”呢! 这时这位准将深思了片刻说了一句：“I know.”而那一刻我也明白了，对方就此放弃了争取“白要”的谈判前提条件。
我们在国外的谈判，得到了国内的全力支持。当对方问及“运费”问题时，由于出国前我们没时间去有关部门调研，不得不通过使馆打电报向公司询问。赵光琛书记亲自到远洋公司那里了解行情，然后一封电报打回来告诉我们，是合同总价的4%，另有1%的保险费。这时谈判桌上经验老道的埃及军方采取了拖延策略，说我们的运费报价太高， 宣布中止谈判。
第一次出去做飞机出口贸易的我们，当时心里真还有点儿“发毛”，立刻回到使馆向姚大使汇报。曾经从血与火战场上走过来的姚大使泰然自若地对我说：你们先别着急，他们肯定是私下里调查去了。果然不出姚大使所料，没过几天那位准将又把我们找了回来，说是要“恢复谈判”。后来我们了解到，埃方果然到储运部门了解了相关情况，人家的答复是：飞机是军火，不是一般货物，没有约定成俗的收费标准，往往卖方说多少就是多少……看来这回心里该“发毛”的倒是我们的谈判对手了。因为他们了解到的国外军火商运枪炮的费用，比我们所报的运飞机的费用还要高呢。
这一关过去之后，在下一关——“技术关”上又卡了壳儿。原因是我们要卖的J-6飞机，当时技术、性能指标确实已经落后了，以至于埃及方面出现了两种不同意见。一种是对中国友好的人士主张购买，认为该型号飞机比较便宜，可以批量购进，至少平时用于战备飞行训练没有问题。另一部分人则表示反对，说是真要打起仗来，属于第一代战机的J-6，恐怕不是第二代战机的对手。
这个决断送到了埃及空军司令那里，这位老兄的个人意见是“不买”，于是就把根据谈判进展情况写成的报告上报到国防部军方那条线去了，而没有抄送图哈密所在的政府这条线。谈判也因此停了下来。这时我们已经谈了一个多月，形势顿时变得严峻了， 大有“前功尽弃”的迹象这。其时我们代表团内部的人员思想也出现了波动，讨论对策时我说，我们不能就这么回国呀，只要有百分之一的希望，我们就要尽百分之百的努力，于是我再次登门求助姚大使。
姚大使认认真真听取了我的带有个人观点的最近谈判情况汇报，他完全支持我，也说不要轻言放弃;这件事若再努力一把做成了，对国家有利呀!他抄起电话直拨图哈密副总理，说我们中国诚心诚意派了一个代表团来，谈了这么久，最后在空军那里“搁浅” 了，希望图哈密先生能过问一下。
姚大使在任期间，同埃及上层保持着密切联系，曾经为图哈密副总理成功访华做了大量工作，因此他们之间的私交相当不错。图哈密听完大使的电话陈述后表态说，请大使阁下带着中国航空工业代表团的团长，立刻到他家里来;于是姚大使带上我和一名阿拉伯语翻译驱车前往。
到达目的地之后我才发现，原来人家副总理住的不是重兵把守的独门独院儿，而是跟我们国家各大城市里那些高层住宅一样的“公寓楼”。图哈密住在十九层，不巧的是那天小区停电，于是姚大使跟我们一起，一层一层地爬楼梯。时间都过去了三十多年， 可我闭上眼睛，脑海里还能浮现出那天姚大使健步走在我们前面扶梯而上时的情景。是啊，新中国的第一代外交官，大都从是部队和政府里精心选拔的，他们对党忠诚，对国家尽职，是我们学习的好榜样!
在图哈密家里，我把同埃及军方谈判的情况如实道来。图哈密听后当着我们的面，与时任埃及副总统、前空军司令穆巴拉克通了电话。作为埃及2号人物的穆巴拉克是个实权派，空军要买飞机，最终都得经由他来拍板。穆巴拉克在电话中说：你让中国朋友到我这里来一趟。于是姚大使又率领我们前往副总统府。
穆巴拉克听了我的汇报之后，言谈举止之间看得出来，他对自己的部下有些发火了，连说空军怎么搞的？!人家中国人诚心诚意地来跟你们谈，给出的条件这么好，你们还不接受……给我印象最深的是，穆巴拉克对中国的友好感情，是用一种军人的直率来表达的。他说：“你们中国人跟我谈合同，我闭着眼睛都敢签字!”听了这番表白，我心里踏实了。
后来我得知，是穆巴拉克亲自指示空军司令，恢复同中航技公司的谈判。也就是说，埃及空军现在面临着来自他们顶头上司的压力，必须要买中国飞机。同时我心里也明白， 我们中航技能做成这笔生意，不是穆巴拉克给我面子，而是两代中国最高领导人所创建的大外交的巨大影响力!由此可见，我们做军贸生意不仅仅取决于产品的技术和质量， 还与国家的政治有着千丝万缕的关联。试想，普通中国人在埃及做生意，做成做不成跟姚广大使有什么关系？大使看重的是我们中航技公司走出国门销售国产飞机， 真真切切体现的是国家利益，所以他才亲自出马，带着我们游走于埃及高层之间。
谈判恢复了，很快进入到合同价格的讨价还价阶段。埃及人说贵，我们说不贵。埃及人说能不能降点儿价，我说一个美分也不降。这不是因为我刘国民“牛”，而是我“知己知彼”，知道你们上面定了调子一定要谈成这笔合同，我不降价你们也得买!当然首先我自信我们中航技公司给出的报价，在国际上是合理的。倘若一时“心太软”降了价， 对方接着便会没完没了地让你继续降，阿拉伯人做买卖的精明我是早就领教过了……
最终合同谈下来，我们向埃及空军销售了44架J-6飞机和6架同类型双座教练机， 以及部分航空发动机，价值一亿三千万美元。另外埃及空军还有一些从前苏联购进的航空器材需要我们修理，付给我们三千万美元，总计1.6亿美元。这也是新中国改变军事装备对外无偿援助，开创军贸出口新局面的一件大事;这个合同的意义，甚至超过了合同本身。当时中国的枪支、大炮、坦克这些常规武器还没卖出去呢，我们中航技公司就率先把飞机卖了出去。所以这不仅仅是中国航空出口第一单，而且还是改革开放以来的中国军贸第一单!
俗话说“不打不成交”，我们和埃及人在谈判桌上为国争利，一个美分也不让;但后来埃及人悄然改变了对我们的接待规格，给我这个团长专门配了小车。我们来开罗时没人宴请，临走前埃方却举行了盛大的欢送宴会。谈判桌上打来打去，最终大家反倒成了朋友。讲到这里还有一件轶事值得一提。我们去参加欢送宴会，原以为就是举举杯你好我好，大家吃喝一顿完事儿。没想到对方还挺正式的，拿出打印好的稿子，站起来“照本宣科”。轮到我致辞时，我也装模作样地掏出那个一直随身携带的笔记本，随便翻开一页就开始尊敬呀，感谢呀，友谊呀，祝愿呀，说了一大堆客套话儿;还时不时往笔记本上扫一眼——其实本子上面啥也没有，我翻开的是个空白页!
至于公司老同志们都知道的我在开罗签字时，拿印有中国国徽的“桌签”对付埃及人的故事，真实情况是这样的：
谈好的合同临到要签字了，对方突然提出，要看一看我的“授权书”。人家提这个要求不无道理，这么大的一个合同，不是什么人都可以上来就签字的。可我哪儿有啊？! 我来埃及不但没有授权书，甚至连出国批件都没有。我前面不是说了嘛，吕东部长有魄力，不办批件也敢把我派出去，但终究要对人家埃方有个交代吧。我镇静一下，从容打开黑色公文包，从里面拿出了一个精致的卡片。这个卡片是此前我陪同三机部领导到罗马尼亚访问时，中国驻罗马尼亚大使馆在欢迎宴会上所摆放的桌签。上面印有国徽， 还有我刘国民的名字。当时我是作为个人藏品放进了公文包，没想到在这一关键时刻派上了用场。当我郑重其事地把这个“桌签”递上去后，人家仔细端详了中华人民共和国国徽和国徽之下我的名字，微笑着与我握手。坦率地讲，这不叫“蒙事儿”，而叫“急中生智”。当然在对方眼中，我出入中国大使馆畅通无阻，中国的大使亲自为我穿针引线，这就足以证明我的身份了。而看看“授权书”，那仅仅是埃及人习惯了的签字之前的例行手续而已。
后来中埃之间的这个大合同执行得还算顺利，等我再去埃及时待遇就不一样了。对方安排住进五星级宾馆的总统套间，像对待老朋友一般好吃好喝招待着。J-6的合同执行完之后中埃之间冷了那么几年，接着又与中航技公司签了一个更大的合同，从中国引进K-8E生产线，组装80架喷气教练机，那是后话了。
后记
笔者记得现任中航国际总裁吴光权说过，正因为有了埃及这“第一桶金”，当年隶属于中航技总公司的深圳公司，创建时才有了充足的资本金。把在国外从事军贸业务挣的钱，用到国内分支机构建设以及非航空领域的市场开拓上，说明老一辈中航技公司领导有着长远眼光，以至于我们今天仍然在受益。
中航技公司的老同志们，都记得刘总当年首赴埃及，是“带着部里仅有的5美元” 上路的。对此刘总本人则这样解释道：
1979 年3月他出国前，三机部外事处还保存着以前援外人员回国后，上交的在国外没用完的5个美元，特意让他带上;以备在境外机场转机时上卫生间，买矿泉水，或者支付必要的小费。刘总说他在埃及签下了上亿美元的大合同，同时也将这5美元“完璧归赵”。
笔者听到此处时，不禁被感动了。如今5个美元对国人来说早已微不足道， 可刘总当年“听君命，将在外”之时，他深知美元对航空工业发展的意义。“哪怕一个美元都是好的”——于是他把本可以在境外花掉的美元现钞又带了回来。
渐行渐远的中航技创业者，他们走过了蹉跎，留下的却是风范……
Auto translation:
The original set: "Share Share" Oral | Liu Guomin transcripts | Li Du for map | AVIC International Laogan do mention AVIC International's history, can not be said Liu Guomin. This is not only because he was once the leader of the company, but also because of his legendary personal experience. Editor's note: an outstanding member of the Communist Party of China, China's aviation industry pioneer and export business leaders in the former Republic of China Ministry of Machinery Industry III, Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs, former chief economist of China Aviation Industry Corporation, the former China Aviation Technology Import and Export Corporation, general manager, honorary chairman, Comrade Liu Guomin, illness is invalid, in at 17:15 on May 21, 2013 in Beijing, died at 79 years of age. Comrade Liu Guomin CATIC pioneer and one of the founders, a longtime key leadership positions for the Chinese military trade development and business start-China aviation industry has contributed to the world life energy! Articles published by Li Du special finishing a memoir of Comrade Liu Guomin, like table Comrade Liu Guomin respect and remembrance. January 1979, Deputy Prime Minister of Egypt Figure Hami visit, expressing the actual needs of Chinese aircraft and talks with Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping learned that China will no longer Foreign "aid" and to charge "cost price" of the . This February, the Chinese Embassy in Egypt suddenly came a telegram informing EgyptAir Soviet-made AN-24 aircraft to be overhauled, I heard that Chinese production of Y-7 aircraft and the same, ask if they can give help? When he was Minister of Lvdong Min Rui three machines to see that this is an opportunity, he knew, the newly established CATIC going to Egypt to sell airplanes, write a report submitted to when it can grant down hard to say. Ministry of Foreign Affairs through formal channels to go with my contact embassy in Egypt, and then tell the Egyptian authorities, through the layers of referrals to the report, the last possible also do not become anything. So Lu ministers finalized, even without this document, but also take the initiative to take advantage of this EgyptAir chance to get out of our consultation actively look for opportunities. If you want to take responsibility for this, then the responsibility for him to bear. So we did not in the absence of any documents submitted for approval to the national authorities in the case group the group, led by the Department to appoint me as the head. Although the members of the delegation have sent XAC Y-7 aircraft loaded up a front expert, but the main staff or intends to export to Egypt from domestic aircraft manufacturing plant. March delegations on the road, you see, is not very urgent ah? The reason why there is such a sense of urgency, it can be said, "hold out". At that time I was just at the Ministry a "soldier", but we hold back those old comrades, but for decades, and finally to the reform and opening up opportunities for development medium. CATIC's first party secretary Zhao Guangchen, early sixties of last century resident in the former Soviet Union before, he knows I'm going out, and I took advantage of the foreign trade sector in the Soviet Union to establish a personal relationship with the company borrowed from technology a general trade contracts, for us to negotiate for reference. Lu Dong minister before me go to look specifically told: "Comrade Liu Guomin, we are missing is the U.S. dollar. Ye go out of this, even earn back one U.S. dollar is good." I'm from the old minister's remarks that in all earnestness , to understand the intentions and expectations of the Party Group. Our party flew to Cairo, Egypt Airlines is connected to only about one day. We do not know when the other issued by the company Antonov AN-24 aircraft repair grant, they politely interrupted the negotiations, which coincides with our views, we are here to talk about China would overhaul is an excuse to go abroad . So the airline declined entertain us on a tour of the pyramids and other monuments arrangement, the night was admitted to the Chinese Embassy in Egypt. CATIC Amoy to the "pot of gold", the first is that we ran into a good ambassador. When he was appointed Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary in Egypt is Yao Guang, if you write us down Egyptian military trade large single story, be sure to mention experienced diplomat who has a legend. He and our Lu Minister, are old members to join the party in 1937, the old revolution. Today, the company's overseas "international open up", are inseparable from our embassies support. Say "medals" in their half, no exaggeration! I went to visit a Yao Ambassador Ambassador's residence, after meeting I took out the notebook, according to the above records, the Ambassador reported to exactly Comrade Xiaoping in Beijing met with Egypt Deputy Prime Figure Hami details - these are the three machines Minister Lu Dong ministry to convey that I live to make records. The reason I say that we CATIC lucky and came across a good ambassador, is that Yao Guang, after listening to my report, with his keen political insight and accurate judgment on the domestic situation and grasp fully believe me The diplomacy of the little people outside the system are conveyed verbally National-led strategic thinking. It can be said, then, Ambassador Yao hit a bureaucratic if there is no formal channels through diplomatic recognition we came here, we have for home. Yao Ambassador immediately said that the embassy will fully support us. And said to me: "I immediately told to contact Mr. Hamilton figure." In this way, the ambassador personally intervene, we visit with the Egyptian government and military groups connected to the head. Two days later, the Egyptian military put us pick out from the Chinese Embassy to arrange live in an apartment building, but also specifically tune a car for our use. Even so, we have almost every day to go to the embassy to report progress in the negotiations. I have repeatedly stressed, without my support of embassies and consulates, CATIC we will get nowhere on the outside, it is from the heart. Support us embassy in Egypt to what extent? As I recall, Yao had 13 times the majority of the hearing in person to report the progress of our work, and we sat together on negotiations with foreign policy. He also opened up our embassy conference room, and the meeting room keys are handed over to us. Yao Ambassador said to me: "Liu, this time to go in this room you use, please be assured that the Foreign Ministry conference room after a close examination of the security sector, in which you discuss issues, guaranteed not to be tapped Egypt . " Because we often spare, Yao Ambassador special instructions "agent" - that is, the second in command of the Chinese Embassy is responsible for care of us out of the embassy. Several times we came back at midnight, the agency gave us the keys to open the embassy in person door, "home" at the moment, the kind of warm feeling is I can not find words to express. Also, we do not have the time to go abroad typewriter, when you need to use a typewriter to print business documents, the embassy military attache would personally pitched as "typist." We are not used to Egyptian rice on the outside, the embassy cafeteria chef also provides us dumplings. What is a "motherland is the strong backing for overseas personnel?" This is! So whenever we return to the entrance of the PRC Embassy in Egypt, saw the face red flag, heart surging passion ...... with Egypt aspects of the negotiations stalemate in the "payment" on. Previously, China was "white to" money now, and I resolutely implement the Minister Lu Dong instructed to dollars! Bend and let people turn this requires a process, but also need a little time. Negotiating table, I argue, I say you have a Suez Canal, passing ships to leave "money", and you received are "hard currency." You are now more than $ 1,000 per capita GDP, but we less than 300 dollars. We are more than you are poor, we have to be justified it with white! Moreover, China received only a "cost price" did not earn your money ...... Later, the Egyptians saw us resolute attitude, do not give money to something seems to die, and its chief negotiator - is a brigadier general, when he was Deputy Minister of the Egyptian air force, at the negotiating table suddenly I asked a question, say you want to be "free exchange" or "trade journal"? Frankly, when I still do not know the number of professional international trade payment details, but I did not even hesitate hesitate to blurt out, to "FREE DOLLAR!" - Because in my mind, Lu Dong minister's trust deep impression - "one U.S. dollar is good", not to mention the contract but if we really get down, then, is more than one U.S. dollar, that "one" would be followed, it must put up a good number of "0" mean! then this bit Brigadier ponder for a moment to say a: "I know." And that moment I also understand the other side to give up the fight for the "White to" negotiations prerequisite. Our negotiations abroad, to get the full support of the domestic. When asked about the other "freight" issue, because we do not have time to go before leaving research departments, had to ask the embassy sent a telegram to the company. Zhao Guangchen offshore company secretary personally to understand the market there, and then come back and tell us a telegram to play, is 4% of the total contract price, and another 1% premium. Then the negotiating table seasoned Egyptian military took a delaying tactic, saying our shipping price is too high, announced the suspension of negotiations. The first aircraft went out to do our export trade, and my heart really was also a bit "hairy", and immediately report back to the embassy, Ambassador to Yao. Who came from the blood and fire on the battlefield poised Ambassador Yao said to me: you first do not worry, they are definitely private investigation went. Sure enough, Yao Ambassador expected, a few days later Brigadier General who brings us looking back, that is to "resume negotiations." Later we learned that the Egyptian side turned to the storage and transportation departments to understand the relevant circumstances, people's answer is: the aircraft is in arms, not a general cargo, there is no agreement as vulgar fees, the seller often says how much is ...... it seems this time the heart of the "hairy" is definitely our negotiating opponent. Because they understand that the cost of foreign arms shipped guns than we quoted the cost of the operation of the aircraft even higher yet. After this off in the past, at the next level - "Technology Off" is stuck on the child. The reason is that we sell the J-6 aircraft, when the technology, performance indicators, it has been left behind, so that there were two different Egyptian side views. One is friendly to China argued for purchase, that the model aircraft is cheaper, you can bulk purchase, at least in peacetime readiness for flight training without problems. Another group of people who expressed their opposition, saying that you really want war broke out, belongs to the first generation fighter J-6, is probably not the second-generation fighter opponent. This decision sent to the Egyptian air force commander there, the man's personal opinion is "do not buy", so he took the progress of negotiations under the written report submitted to the Department of Defense military went to the line, but not where Cc Figure Hami government this line. Negotiations and therefore stopped. At this time we have been talking about for over a month, the situation suddenly became serious, and a great "come to naught" signs it. Delegation of its internal staff when we thought there have been fluctuations, discuss countermeasures when I say that we can not just return it, as long as there is one percent of hope, we must make 100 percent effort, so I once again help Yao door ambassador. Yao Ambassador seriously listened to my personal view of recent negotiations with the report on the situation, he fully supported me, they said do not give up; this thing if more effort one made, and beneficial to the country Yeah! He copied Figure Hami from direct dialing Deputy Prime Minister, said that we sincerely China sent a delegation to talk about for so long, and finally in the Air Force where the "stranded", and hope can really look at the map, Mr. Hamilton. Yao Ambassador during his tenure with the upper Egypt kept in close contact, who is Deputy Prime Minister's visit to China in Hami figure a lot of work, so the personal relationship between them is quite good. Figure Hami representations listening ambassador declared that the phone, please bring Ambassador Head of the Delegation of China's aviation industry, and immediately to his house; Then Yao Ambassador to bring me and drove to an Arabic translation. Arrive before I discovered that people are not living Deputy Prime Minister heavily guarded detached homes children, but with our country's major cities like those high-rise residential "apartment building." Hamilton lived in Figure 19 storeys, unfortunately that day residential power outage, so Yao Ambassador with us, layer by layer stairs. Time has passed away thirty years, can I close my eyes, my mind can emerge out of the day Yao Ambassador Walking in front of us on the scene when the escalator. Yes ah, the new China's first generation diplomats, mostly from the army and the government is in the careful selection, they are loyal to the Party, the State due diligence, we learn a good example! In Figure Hami home, I put the same Egyptian military bargaining situation to come. Figure Hami hear in front of our faces, and when he was Vice President of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, former air force commander on the phone. As Egypt's Mubarak second person is a real school, the Air Force to buy airplanes, and ultimately had to be finalized by him. Mubarak said in a telephone: You make Chinese friends come to me a trip. So Yao has led us to the Deputy Ambassador of the presidential palace. Mubarak, after listening to my report, and conversation between the see, some of his own men angry, and even said the Air Force how to engage? ! People Chinese people sincerely to talk to you, given the conditions so well, you do not accept the ...... What impressed me most is that Mubarak's friendly feelings for China, is in a straight soldiers to express The. He said: "You Chinese people have told me about the contract, my eyes, I dare sign!" After hearing Zhefan confession, my heart at ease. Later I learned that Mubarak personally instructed the Air Force Commander, restored with CATIC negotiations. That is, the Egyptian Air Force is now facing pressure from their superiors, must buy Chinese aircraft. At the same time I was also aware that we made the deal AVIC skills, not Mubarak give me face, but two generations of Chinese top leaders have created the enormous influence of big diplomatic! So, we do military trade business depends not only on technology and quality products, but also with the country's political inextricably related. Imagine, ordinary Chinese people to do business in Egypt, made impossible to do so with Yao majority have anything? Ambassador valued CATIC our sales domestic aircraft out of the country, is reflected in the genuineness of national interest, so he personally, with our walk in between the top of Egypt. Negotiations resumed, and soon entered into the contract price bargaining stage. Egyptians say expensive, we say expensive. Egyptians say that this can not drop a little, and I will not say one cent drop. This is not because I am Liu Guomin "cow", but I "Know thyself", know that you have to set the tone above the negotiated amount of the contract, I do not price you have to buy! Course, first I'm confident we CATIC given quoted in the international arena is reasonable. If the moment "the heart" of the price down, the other would then allow you to continue down endlessly, Arabs doing business savvy I would have had that experience before ...... talk down the final contract, we sold 44 to the Egyptian Air Force Rack J-6 aircraft and six two-seat trainer same type, as well as some aircraft engines, valued at one hundred and thirty million U.S. dollars. Another Egyptian Air Force purchased the former Soviet Union and some aviation equipment we need to repair, pay us $ 30 million Total $ 160 million. This change is the new Chinese military equipment of foreign aid, and create a new situation in a military trade export event; significance of this contract, even more than the contract itself. At that time China's guns, artillery, tanks, not to sell these conventional weapons go, we took the lead in CATIC sold out to the aircraft. So it's not just China Aviation first export orders, but also in China since the reform and opening military trade first single! saying goes, "No pain, no deal," we and the Egyptians at the negotiating table for the country to compete for profit, one cents do not let; but later the Egyptians quietly changed the specifications of our reception, giving me the head of the special feature of the car. When we come to Cairo nobody dinner, before leaving Egypt has held a grand farewell banquet. Fight to call the negotiating table and eventually we had become friends. Mentioned here is worth mentioning that there is an anecdote. We go to the farewell banquet, thinking that I may give a toast hello, we eat and drink meal finished thing. I did not expect the other side quite formal, printed out the manuscript, stand up, "scripted." Speech was my turn, I also pretended to pull out a notebook that has to carry, just open a respectable way to start, thanks Yeah, Friendship Yeah, I wish it said a lot of courtesy's Speech; also from time to notebook glance - in fact, the book above had nothing, I opened a blank page! regards company veteran comrades knew when I signed in Cairo, take printed with Chinese national emblem of the "desk sign" to deal with the story of the Egyptians , the truth is this: a good talk came to signing the contract, the other party suddenly proposed to take a look at my "power of attorney." People mention this requirement is reasonable, so much a contract, not what people can sign up on the. Where can I have ah? ! I came to Egypt has not power of attorney, and even abroad approvals are not. I have not told you earlier, Lu Dong minister has courage, approvals do not dare to send me to go, but in the end people want to Egyptian Yougejiaodai it. I look calm, calm open black briefcase from the inside out, a fine card. This card is accompanied by three machines had led me to Romania visit, Chinese Embassy in Romania at the welcoming banquet tables placed on the sign. Emblazoned with the coat of arms, and my name Liu Guomin. I was put into the bag as a personal collection, I did not expect at this critical moment came in handy. When I solemnly put the "desk to sign" handed to go after, they carefully scrutinize the national emblem and the national emblem of the PRC under my name, smiled and shook my hand. Frankly, this is not called "Mongolian thing", and called "quick-witted." Of course, in each other's eyes, I unimpeded access to the Chinese Embassy, China's ambassador go-between for me personally, this is sufficient to prove my identity a. And look at the "power of attorney", that is just before signing the Egyptians accustomed to a routine formality. Later in this big contract between Egypt performs pretty well, so I go to Egypt when treatment is not the same. Other arrangement admitted to the presidential suite five-star hotel, treated like an old friend delicious drink entertain with. J-6 after the implementation of the contract between the cold and Egypt then a few years, followed with CATIC signed a bigger contract from China to introduce K-8E production lines, assembly 80 jet trainer, it was after any more. Postscript I remember incumbent president of AVIC International Wu Guang Quan said, is because Egypt this "pot of gold", then part of CATIC Shenzhen Company, created only with adequate capital. The army engaged in foreign trade business earns, construction and non-domestic branches used in the field of aviation market development, indicating that the older generation of leaders CATIC has a long-term vision, that we still benefit from today. CATIC's old comrades, remember Liu went to Egypt, the first year is the "ministry with only five dollars," the road. In this regard Mr. Liu himself explains it this way: in March 1979 before he went abroad, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Department three machines still preserved after returning to the previous foreign aid workers, and paid in foreign countries do not run out of the $ 5, deliberately let him bring ; to prepare for when the airport transit outside the bathroom, buy mineral water, or pay the necessary tip. Mr. Liu said he was in Egypt signed a big contract billions of dollars, but also these $ 5 "Ends bi Zhao." I have heard here, can not help being moved. Today, $ 5 for people who already insignificant, may Liu then "listen Junming, will be out" when he knew the U.S. dollar against the significance of the development of the aviation industry. "Even if one U.S. dollar is good" - so he could spend dollars in foreign cash and brought back. Lopsided of CATIC entrepreneurs, they have gone through wasted, but it is left demeanor ......
Sorry, I don't have time to translate the article. Forgive me using auto translation. If someone have the time, please translate it.
原载：《Share 分享》口述∣刘国民录音整理∣李都供图∣中航国际老干办
提到中航国际的历史，不能不说刘国民。这不仅仅因为他曾经是公司的领军人物， 还在于他那传奇般的个人经历。
编者按：
中国共产党的优秀党员、中国航空工业进出口事业的先驱和卓越领导者、中华人民共和国原第三机械工业部外事局副局长、原中国航空工业总公司总经济师，原中国航空技术进出口总公司总经理、名誉董事长刘国民同志，因病医治无效，于2013年5月21日17时15分在北京逝世，享年79岁。刘国民同志是中航技公司的开创者和奠基人之一，长期担任重要领导职务，为中国军贸事业的起步发展和中国航空工业走向世界贡献了毕生精力!
本刊特刊登由李都整理的一篇刘国民同志的回忆录，谨表对刘国民同志的敬意与怀念。
1979年1月，埃及副总理图哈密来访，表达了对中国飞机的实际需求，并在与邓小平副总理的会谈中了解到，中国将不再对外“无偿援助”而要收“成本费”了。这年2月，中国驻埃及大使馆突然来了封电报，告知埃及航空公司的苏制AN-24飞机要大修，听说中国生产的Y-7飞机与此相同，询问能否给予帮助？时任三机部部长吕东敏锐地看到了这是一个机会，他知道，刚刚成立的中航技公司要去埃及卖飞机，写个报告上报何时能批下来还很难说。走正规渠道通过外交部跟我驻埃及使馆联系，再转告埃及主管部门，经层层请示汇报后，最后可能什么事情也办不成了。于是吕部长拍板，即便没有批件，也要利用这次埃及航空公司主动向我们咨询的机会走出去寻商机。如果为此要承担责任，那么这个责任就由他来负。于是我们在没有任何文件也没有向国家有关部门报批的情况下组了团，部领导指定我来当团长。虽然代表团成员中有西飞公司派出的Y-7飞机专家装装门面，但主力人员还是来自打算向埃及出口飞机的国内生产厂。3月份代表团就上路了，你看是不是很紧迫啊？
之所以有如此紧迫感，也可以说是“憋”出来的。那时候我个人在部里还只是个“小兵”，但我们那些老同志可是憋了几十年，终于在改革开放中等来了发展机遇。中航技公司的首任党委书记赵光琛，上世纪六十年代初曾经在前苏联常驻过，他知道我要出去，便利用在苏联与我外贸部门建立起的私人关系，从中技公司那里借了一本一般贸易的合同文本，供我们谈判作参考。行前吕东部长专门把我找去叮嘱道：“刘国民同志，我们现在缺的是美元。你们这次出去，哪怕挣回一个美元都是好的。”我从老部长那语重心长的一席话中，领会到了部党组的意图和期望。
我们一行飞到了开罗，被埃及航空公司接去仅谈了一天。当对方得知我们没有安东诺夫公司颁发的修理AN-24飞机的授权证，便礼貌地中断了谈判，而这正合我们的意，本来我们到这里谈民机大修，就是一个出国借口。于是谢绝了航空公司招待我们游览金字塔等名胜古迹的安排，当晚就住进了中国驻埃及大使馆。
中航技公司能淘到“第一桶金”，首先在于我们碰上了一位好大使。时任中国驻埃及的特命全权大使是姚广，你如果写我们拿下埃及军贸大单的故事，一定要提一下这位有着传奇经历的外交官。他和我们吕部长一样，都是1937 年入党的老党员、老革命。 时至今日，公司在海外的“国际化开拓”，都离不开我国驻外使领馆的大力支持。要说“军功章”中有他们的一半，一点都不为过!
我去大使官邸拜访了姚大使，见面之后我拿出笔记本，根据上面的记录，原原本本向大使汇报了小平同志在北京会见埃及副总理图哈密的详细情况——这些都是吕东部长在三机部里传达的，我现场做的记录。我之所以说我们中航技公司很幸运，碰上了一位好大使，就在于姚广听了我的汇报之后，以他敏锐的政治眼光和对国内形势的准确判断与把握，完全相信了我这个外交系统之外的小人物所口头转达的国家大领导的战略思维。可以说，当时姚大使如果打一句官腔，没有通过外交正式渠道认可就来到此地的我们，就不得不打道回府了。
姚大使当即表示，使馆将全力支持我们。并且对我说：“我立刻就跟图哈密先生联系。”就这样，在大使的亲自过问下，我们出访小组与埃及政府和军方接上了头。两天之后，埃及军方就把我们从中国大使馆接出，安排住进一座公寓楼，还专门调了一辆车供我们使用。不过即便如此，我们也几乎每天都要到使馆去汇报谈判进展情况。
我反复强调，没有我驻外使领馆的大力支持，我们中航技公司在外面将一事无成，这是发自内心的。驻埃及使馆支持我们到什么程度？据我回忆，姚广大使曾经13次亲自听我们的工作进展汇报，并和我们坐在一起研究对外谈判的策略。他还对我们开放了使馆的会议室，并且把会议室钥匙都交给了我们。姚大使对我说：“小刘，这段时间这个会议室就归你们使用了。请放心，会议室经过了外交部安保部门的严密检查，你们在里面讨论问题，保证不会被埃方窃听。”
由于我们经常早出晚归，姚大使特别指示“代办”——也就是中国大使馆的二把手，负责关照我们进出使馆。好几次我们半夜回来，代办亲自拿钥匙给我们打开使馆大门，“回家”的那一刻，那种温馨的感受是我难以用言语来表达的。还有，当时出国我们没有打字机，当需要用打字机来打印商贸文件时，使馆的武官便亲自上阵充当“打字员”。我们在外面吃不惯埃及的饭，使馆食堂的大师傅还为我们包饺子。什么叫“祖国是赴海外人员的坚强后盾？”这就是!所以每当我们回到中华人民共和国驻埃及大使馆的门口， 看见那面鲜红的五星红旗，内心深处激情涌动……
同埃及方面的谈判，僵持在“付款”上。以前中国是“白给”，现在要钱了，而且我坚决执行吕东部长的指示，要美元!这个弯子让人家转过来需要有一个过程，而且也需要一点时间。
谈判桌上我据理力争，我说你们有一条苏伊士运河，过往船只是要留下“买路钱”的，而且你收的都是“硬通货”。你们现在人均GDP 超过了1000美元，可我们还不到300美元。我们比你们穷，白跟我们要说不过去呀!况且中国收的仅仅是个“成本费”，没挣你们的钱……
后来埃及人看到我们态度坚决，要东西不给钱看来不行了，其首席谈判官——是一个准将，时任埃及空军装备部副部长，在谈判桌上突然给我提了一个问题，说你们想要的是“自由外汇”还是“记账贸易”？坦率地说，那时的我还搞不大清楚国际贸易支付的一些专业细节，但我连犹豫都没犹豫就脱口而出，要“FREE DOLLAR!”——因为在我脑海里，吕东部长的重托印象太深了——“一个美元都是好的”，何况这个合同我们要是真能拿下来的话，岂止一个美元，那个“一”的后面，肯定要挂上好多个“0”呢! 这时这位准将深思了片刻说了一句：“I know.”而那一刻我也明白了，对方就此放弃了争取“白要”的谈判前提条件。
我们在国外的谈判，得到了国内的全力支持。当对方问及“运费”问题时，由于出国前我们没时间去有关部门调研，不得不通过使馆打电报向公司询问。赵光琛书记亲自到远洋公司那里了解行情，然后一封电报打回来告诉我们，是合同总价的4%，另有1%的保险费。这时谈判桌上经验老道的埃及军方采取了拖延策略，说我们的运费报价太高， 宣布中止谈判。
第一次出去做飞机出口贸易的我们，当时心里真还有点儿“发毛”，立刻回到使馆向姚大使汇报。曾经从血与火战场上走过来的姚大使泰然自若地对我说：你们先别着急，他们肯定是私下里调查去了。果然不出姚大使所料，没过几天那位准将又把我们找了回来，说是要“恢复谈判”。后来我们了解到，埃方果然到储运部门了解了相关情况，人家的答复是：飞机是军火，不是一般货物，没有约定成俗的收费标准，往往卖方说多少就是多少……看来这回心里该“发毛”的倒是我们的谈判对手了。因为他们了解到的国外军火商运枪炮的费用，比我们所报的运飞机的费用还要高呢。
这一关过去之后，在下一关——“技术关”上又卡了壳儿。原因是我们要卖的J-6飞机，当时技术、性能指标确实已经落后了，以至于埃及方面出现了两种不同意见。一种是对中国友好的人士主张购买，认为该型号飞机比较便宜，可以批量购进，至少平时用于战备飞行训练没有问题。另一部分人则表示反对，说是真要打起仗来，属于第一代战机的J-6，恐怕不是第二代战机的对手。
这个决断送到了埃及空军司令那里，这位老兄的个人意见是“不买”，于是就把根据谈判进展情况写成的报告上报到国防部军方那条线去了，而没有抄送图哈密所在的政府这条线。谈判也因此停了下来。这时我们已经谈了一个多月，形势顿时变得严峻了， 大有“前功尽弃”的迹象这。其时我们代表团内部的人员思想也出现了波动，讨论对策时我说，我们不能就这么回国呀，只要有百分之一的希望，我们就要尽百分之百的努力，于是我再次登门求助姚大使。
姚大使认认真真听取了我的带有个人观点的最近谈判情况汇报，他完全支持我，也说不要轻言放弃;这件事若再努力一把做成了，对国家有利呀!他抄起电话直拨图哈密副总理，说我们中国诚心诚意派了一个代表团来，谈了这么久，最后在空军那里“搁浅” 了，希望图哈密先生能过问一下。
姚大使在任期间，同埃及上层保持着密切联系，曾经为图哈密副总理成功访华做了大量工作，因此他们之间的私交相当不错。图哈密听完大使的电话陈述后表态说，请大使阁下带着中国航空工业代表团的团长，立刻到他家里来;于是姚大使带上我和一名阿拉伯语翻译驱车前往。
到达目的地之后我才发现，原来人家副总理住的不是重兵把守的独门独院儿，而是跟我们国家各大城市里那些高层住宅一样的“公寓楼”。图哈密住在十九层，不巧的是那天小区停电，于是姚大使跟我们一起，一层一层地爬楼梯。时间都过去了三十多年， 可我闭上眼睛，脑海里还能浮现出那天姚大使健步走在我们前面扶梯而上时的情景。是啊，新中国的第一代外交官，大都从是部队和政府里精心选拔的，他们对党忠诚，对国家尽职，是我们学习的好榜样!
在图哈密家里，我把同埃及军方谈判的情况如实道来。图哈密听后当着我们的面，与时任埃及副总统、前空军司令穆巴拉克通了电话。作为埃及2号人物的穆巴拉克是个实权派，空军要买飞机，最终都得经由他来拍板。穆巴拉克在电话中说：你让中国朋友到我这里来一趟。于是姚大使又率领我们前往副总统府。
穆巴拉克听了我的汇报之后，言谈举止之间看得出来，他对自己的部下有些发火了，连说空军怎么搞的？!人家中国人诚心诚意地来跟你们谈，给出的条件这么好，你们还不接受……给我印象最深的是，穆巴拉克对中国的友好感情，是用一种军人的直率来表达的。他说：“你们中国人跟我谈合同，我闭着眼睛都敢签字!”听了这番表白，我心里踏实了。
后来我得知，是穆巴拉克亲自指示空军司令，恢复同中航技公司的谈判。也就是说，埃及空军现在面临着来自他们顶头上司的压力，必须要买中国飞机。同时我心里也明白， 我们中航技能做成这笔生意，不是穆巴拉克给我面子，而是两代中国最高领导人所创建的大外交的巨大影响力!由此可见，我们做军贸生意不仅仅取决于产品的技术和质量， 还与国家的政治有着千丝万缕的关联。试想，普通中国人在埃及做生意，做成做不成跟姚广大使有什么关系？大使看重的是我们中航技公司走出国门销售国产飞机， 真真切切体现的是国家利益，所以他才亲自出马，带着我们游走于埃及高层之间。
谈判恢复了，很快进入到合同价格的讨价还价阶段。埃及人说贵，我们说不贵。埃及人说能不能降点儿价，我说一个美分也不降。这不是因为我刘国民“牛”，而是我“知己知彼”，知道你们上面定了调子一定要谈成这笔合同，我不降价你们也得买!当然首先我自信我们中航技公司给出的报价，在国际上是合理的。倘若一时“心太软”降了价， 对方接着便会没完没了地让你继续降，阿拉伯人做买卖的精明我是早就领教过了……
最终合同谈下来，我们向埃及空军销售了44架J-6飞机和6架同类型双座教练机， 以及部分航空发动机，价值一亿三千万美元。另外埃及空军还有一些从前苏联购进的航空器材需要我们修理，付给我们三千万美元，总计1.6亿美元。这也是新中国改变军事装备对外无偿援助，开创军贸出口新局面的一件大事;这个合同的意义，甚至超过了合同本身。当时中国的枪支、大炮、坦克这些常规武器还没卖出去呢，我们中航技公司就率先把飞机卖了出去。所以这不仅仅是中国航空出口第一单，而且还是改革开放以来的中国军贸第一单!
俗话说“不打不成交”，我们和埃及人在谈判桌上为国争利，一个美分也不让;但后来埃及人悄然改变了对我们的接待规格，给我这个团长专门配了小车。我们来开罗时没人宴请，临走前埃方却举行了盛大的欢送宴会。谈判桌上打来打去，最终大家反倒成了朋友。讲到这里还有一件轶事值得一提。我们去参加欢送宴会，原以为就是举举杯你好我好，大家吃喝一顿完事儿。没想到对方还挺正式的，拿出打印好的稿子，站起来“照本宣科”。轮到我致辞时，我也装模作样地掏出那个一直随身携带的笔记本，随便翻开一页就开始尊敬呀，感谢呀，友谊呀，祝愿呀，说了一大堆客套话儿;还时不时往笔记本上扫一眼——其实本子上面啥也没有，我翻开的是个空白页!
至于公司老同志们都知道的我在开罗签字时，拿印有中国国徽的“桌签”对付埃及人的故事，真实情况是这样的：
谈好的合同临到要签字了，对方突然提出，要看一看我的“授权书”。人家提这个要求不无道理，这么大的一个合同，不是什么人都可以上来就签字的。可我哪儿有啊？! 我来埃及不但没有授权书，甚至连出国批件都没有。我前面不是说了嘛，吕东部长有魄力，不办批件也敢把我派出去，但终究要对人家埃方有个交代吧。我镇静一下，从容打开黑色公文包，从里面拿出了一个精致的卡片。这个卡片是此前我陪同三机部领导到罗马尼亚访问时，中国驻罗马尼亚大使馆在欢迎宴会上所摆放的桌签。上面印有国徽， 还有我刘国民的名字。当时我是作为个人藏品放进了公文包，没想到在这一关键时刻派上了用场。当我郑重其事地把这个“桌签”递上去后，人家仔细端详了中华人民共和国国徽和国徽之下我的名字，微笑着与我握手。坦率地讲，这不叫“蒙事儿”，而叫“急中生智”。当然在对方眼中，我出入中国大使馆畅通无阻，中国的大使亲自为我穿针引线，这就足以证明我的身份了。而看看“授权书”，那仅仅是埃及人习惯了的签字之前的例行手续而已。
后来中埃之间的这个大合同执行得还算顺利，等我再去埃及时待遇就不一样了。对方安排住进五星级宾馆的总统套间，像对待老朋友一般好吃好喝招待着。J-6的合同执行完之后中埃之间冷了那么几年，接着又与中航技公司签了一个更大的合同，从中国引进K-8E生产线，组装80架喷气教练机，那是后话了。
后记
笔者记得现任中航国际总裁吴光权说过，正因为有了埃及这“第一桶金”，当年隶属于中航技总公司的深圳公司，创建时才有了充足的资本金。把在国外从事军贸业务挣的钱，用到国内分支机构建设以及非航空领域的市场开拓上，说明老一辈中航技公司领导有着长远眼光，以至于我们今天仍然在受益。
中航技公司的老同志们，都记得刘总当年首赴埃及，是“带着部里仅有的5美元” 上路的。对此刘总本人则这样解释道：
1979 年3月他出国前，三机部外事处还保存着以前援外人员回国后，上交的在国外没用完的5个美元，特意让他带上;以备在境外机场转机时上卫生间，买矿泉水，或者支付必要的小费。刘总说他在埃及签下了上亿美元的大合同，同时也将这5美元“完璧归赵”。
笔者听到此处时，不禁被感动了。如今5个美元对国人来说早已微不足道， 可刘总当年“听君命，将在外”之时，他深知美元对航空工业发展的意义。“哪怕一个美元都是好的”——于是他把本可以在境外花掉的美元现钞又带了回来。
渐行渐远的中航技创业者，他们走过了蹉跎，留下的却是风范……
Auto translation:
The original set: "Share Share" Oral | Liu Guomin transcripts | Li Du for map | AVIC International Laogan do mention AVIC International's history, can not be said Liu Guomin. This is not only because he was once the leader of the company, but also because of his legendary personal experience. Editor's note: an outstanding member of the Communist Party of China, China's aviation industry pioneer and export business leaders in the former Republic of China Ministry of Machinery Industry III, Deputy Secretary of Foreign Affairs, former chief economist of China Aviation Industry Corporation, the former China Aviation Technology Import and Export Corporation, general manager, honorary chairman, Comrade Liu Guomin, illness is invalid, in at 17:15 on May 21, 2013 in Beijing, died at 79 years of age. Comrade Liu Guomin CATIC pioneer and one of the founders, a longtime key leadership positions for the Chinese military trade development and business start-China aviation industry has contributed to the world life energy! Articles published by Li Du special finishing a memoir of Comrade Liu Guomin, like table Comrade Liu Guomin respect and remembrance. January 1979, Deputy Prime Minister of Egypt Figure Hami visit, expressing the actual needs of Chinese aircraft and talks with Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping learned that China will no longer Foreign "aid" and to charge "cost price" of the . This February, the Chinese Embassy in Egypt suddenly came a telegram informing EgyptAir Soviet-made AN-24 aircraft to be overhauled, I heard that Chinese production of Y-7 aircraft and the same, ask if they can give help? When he was Minister of Lvdong Min Rui three machines to see that this is an opportunity, he knew, the newly established CATIC going to Egypt to sell airplanes, write a report submitted to when it can grant down hard to say. Ministry of Foreign Affairs through formal channels to go with my contact embassy in Egypt, and then tell the Egyptian authorities, through the layers of referrals to the report, the last possible also do not become anything. So Lu ministers finalized, even without this document, but also take the initiative to take advantage of this EgyptAir chance to get out of our consultation actively look for opportunities. If you want to take responsibility for this, then the responsibility for him to bear. So we did not in the absence of any documents submitted for approval to the national authorities in the case group the group, led by the Department to appoint me as the head. Although the members of the delegation have sent XAC Y-7 aircraft loaded up a front expert, but the main staff or intends to export to Egypt from domestic aircraft manufacturing plant. March delegations on the road, you see, is not very urgent ah? The reason why there is such a sense of urgency, it can be said, "hold out". At that time I was just at the Ministry a "soldier", but we hold back those old comrades, but for decades, and finally to the reform and opening up opportunities for development medium. CATIC's first party secretary Zhao Guangchen, early sixties of last century resident in the former Soviet Union before, he knows I'm going out, and I took advantage of the foreign trade sector in the Soviet Union to establish a personal relationship with the company borrowed from technology a general trade contracts, for us to negotiate for reference. Lu Dong minister before me go to look specifically told: "Comrade Liu Guomin, we are missing is the U.S. dollar. Ye go out of this, even earn back one U.S. dollar is good." I'm from the old minister's remarks that in all earnestness , to understand the intentions and expectations of the Party Group. Our party flew to Cairo, Egypt Airlines is connected to only about one day. We do not know when the other issued by the company Antonov AN-24 aircraft repair grant, they politely interrupted the negotiations, which coincides with our views, we are here to talk about China would overhaul is an excuse to go abroad . So the airline declined entertain us on a tour of the pyramids and other monuments arrangement, the night was admitted to the Chinese Embassy in Egypt. CATIC Amoy to the "pot of gold", the first is that we ran into a good ambassador. When he was appointed Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary in Egypt is Yao Guang, if you write us down Egyptian military trade large single story, be sure to mention experienced diplomat who has a legend. He and our Lu Minister, are old members to join the party in 1937, the old revolution. Today, the company's overseas "international open up", are inseparable from our embassies support. Say "medals" in their half, no exaggeration! I went to visit a Yao Ambassador Ambassador's residence, after meeting I took out the notebook, according to the above records, the Ambassador reported to exactly Comrade Xiaoping in Beijing met with Egypt Deputy Prime Figure Hami details - these are the three machines Minister Lu Dong ministry to convey that I live to make records. The reason I say that we CATIC lucky and came across a good ambassador, is that Yao Guang, after listening to my report, with his keen political insight and accurate judgment on the domestic situation and grasp fully believe me The diplomacy of the little people outside the system are conveyed verbally National-led strategic thinking. It can be said, then, Ambassador Yao hit a bureaucratic if there is no formal channels through diplomatic recognition we came here, we have for home. Yao Ambassador immediately said that the embassy will fully support us. And said to me: "I immediately told to contact Mr. Hamilton figure." In this way, the ambassador personally intervene, we visit with the Egyptian government and military groups connected to the head. Two days later, the Egyptian military put us pick out from the Chinese Embassy to arrange live in an apartment building, but also specifically tune a car for our use. Even so, we have almost every day to go to the embassy to report progress in the negotiations. I have repeatedly stressed, without my support of embassies and consulates, CATIC we will get nowhere on the outside, it is from the heart. Support us embassy in Egypt to what extent? As I recall, Yao had 13 times the majority of the hearing in person to report the progress of our work, and we sat together on negotiations with foreign policy. He also opened up our embassy conference room, and the meeting room keys are handed over to us. Yao Ambassador said to me: "Liu, this time to go in this room you use, please be assured that the Foreign Ministry conference room after a close examination of the security sector, in which you discuss issues, guaranteed not to be tapped Egypt . " Because we often spare, Yao Ambassador special instructions "agent" - that is, the second in command of the Chinese Embassy is responsible for care of us out of the embassy. Several times we came back at midnight, the agency gave us the keys to open the embassy in person door, "home" at the moment, the kind of warm feeling is I can not find words to express. Also, we do not have the time to go abroad typewriter, when you need to use a typewriter to print business documents, the embassy military attache would personally pitched as "typist." We are not used to Egyptian rice on the outside, the embassy cafeteria chef also provides us dumplings. What is a "motherland is the strong backing for overseas personnel?" This is! So whenever we return to the entrance of the PRC Embassy in Egypt, saw the face red flag, heart surging passion ...... with Egypt aspects of the negotiations stalemate in the "payment" on. Previously, China was "white to" money now, and I resolutely implement the Minister Lu Dong instructed to dollars! Bend and let people turn this requires a process, but also need a little time. Negotiating table, I argue, I say you have a Suez Canal, passing ships to leave "money", and you received are "hard currency." You are now more than $ 1,000 per capita GDP, but we less than 300 dollars. We are more than you are poor, we have to be justified it with white! Moreover, China received only a "cost price" did not earn your money ...... Later, the Egyptians saw us resolute attitude, do not give money to something seems to die, and its chief negotiator - is a brigadier general, when he was Deputy Minister of the Egyptian air force, at the negotiating table suddenly I asked a question, say you want to be "free exchange" or "trade journal"? Frankly, when I still do not know the number of professional international trade payment details, but I did not even hesitate hesitate to blurt out, to "FREE DOLLAR!" - Because in my mind, Lu Dong minister's trust deep impression - "one U.S. dollar is good", not to mention the contract but if we really get down, then, is more than one U.S. dollar, that "one" would be followed, it must put up a good number of "0" mean! then this bit Brigadier ponder for a moment to say a: "I know." And that moment I also understand the other side to give up the fight for the "White to" negotiations prerequisite. Our negotiations abroad, to get the full support of the domestic. When asked about the other "freight" issue, because we do not have time to go before leaving research departments, had to ask the embassy sent a telegram to the company. Zhao Guangchen offshore company secretary personally to understand the market there, and then come back and tell us a telegram to play, is 4% of the total contract price, and another 1% premium. Then the negotiating table seasoned Egyptian military took a delaying tactic, saying our shipping price is too high, announced the suspension of negotiations. The first aircraft went out to do our export trade, and my heart really was also a bit "hairy", and immediately report back to the embassy, Ambassador to Yao. Who came from the blood and fire on the battlefield poised Ambassador Yao said to me: you first do not worry, they are definitely private investigation went. Sure enough, Yao Ambassador expected, a few days later Brigadier General who brings us looking back, that is to "resume negotiations." Later we learned that the Egyptian side turned to the storage and transportation departments to understand the relevant circumstances, people's answer is: the aircraft is in arms, not a general cargo, there is no agreement as vulgar fees, the seller often says how much is ...... it seems this time the heart of the "hairy" is definitely our negotiating opponent. Because they understand that the cost of foreign arms shipped guns than we quoted the cost of the operation of the aircraft even higher yet. After this off in the past, at the next level - "Technology Off" is stuck on the child. The reason is that we sell the J-6 aircraft, when the technology, performance indicators, it has been left behind, so that there were two different Egyptian side views. One is friendly to China argued for purchase, that the model aircraft is cheaper, you can bulk purchase, at least in peacetime readiness for flight training without problems. Another group of people who expressed their opposition, saying that you really want war broke out, belongs to the first generation fighter J-6, is probably not the second-generation fighter opponent. This decision sent to the Egyptian air force commander there, the man's personal opinion is "do not buy", so he took the progress of negotiations under the written report submitted to the Department of Defense military went to the line, but not where Cc Figure Hami government this line. Negotiations and therefore stopped. At this time we have been talking about for over a month, the situation suddenly became serious, and a great "come to naught" signs it. Delegation of its internal staff when we thought there have been fluctuations, discuss countermeasures when I say that we can not just return it, as long as there is one percent of hope, we must make 100 percent effort, so I once again help Yao door ambassador. Yao Ambassador seriously listened to my personal view of recent negotiations with the report on the situation, he fully supported me, they said do not give up; this thing if more effort one made, and beneficial to the country Yeah! He copied Figure Hami from direct dialing Deputy Prime Minister, said that we sincerely China sent a delegation to talk about for so long, and finally in the Air Force where the "stranded", and hope can really look at the map, Mr. Hamilton. Yao Ambassador during his tenure with the upper Egypt kept in close contact, who is Deputy Prime Minister's visit to China in Hami figure a lot of work, so the personal relationship between them is quite good. Figure Hami representations listening ambassador declared that the phone, please bring Ambassador Head of the Delegation of China's aviation industry, and immediately to his house; Then Yao Ambassador to bring me and drove to an Arabic translation. Arrive before I discovered that people are not living Deputy Prime Minister heavily guarded detached homes children, but with our country's major cities like those high-rise residential "apartment building." Hamilton lived in Figure 19 storeys, unfortunately that day residential power outage, so Yao Ambassador with us, layer by layer stairs. Time has passed away thirty years, can I close my eyes, my mind can emerge out of the day Yao Ambassador Walking in front of us on the scene when the escalator. Yes ah, the new China's first generation diplomats, mostly from the army and the government is in the careful selection, they are loyal to the Party, the State due diligence, we learn a good example! In Figure Hami home, I put the same Egyptian military bargaining situation to come. Figure Hami hear in front of our faces, and when he was Vice President of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, former air force commander on the phone. As Egypt's Mubarak second person is a real school, the Air Force to buy airplanes, and ultimately had to be finalized by him. Mubarak said in a telephone: You make Chinese friends come to me a trip. So Yao has led us to the Deputy Ambassador of the presidential palace. Mubarak, after listening to my report, and conversation between the see, some of his own men angry, and even said the Air Force how to engage? ! People Chinese people sincerely to talk to you, given the conditions so well, you do not accept the ...... What impressed me most is that Mubarak's friendly feelings for China, is in a straight soldiers to express The. He said: "You Chinese people have told me about the contract, my eyes, I dare sign!" After hearing Zhefan confession, my heart at ease. Later I learned that Mubarak personally instructed the Air Force Commander, restored with CATIC negotiations. That is, the Egyptian Air Force is now facing pressure from their superiors, must buy Chinese aircraft. At the same time I was also aware that we made the deal AVIC skills, not Mubarak give me face, but two generations of Chinese top leaders have created the enormous influence of big diplomatic! So, we do military trade business depends not only on technology and quality products, but also with the country's political inextricably related. Imagine, ordinary Chinese people to do business in Egypt, made impossible to do so with Yao majority have anything? Ambassador valued CATIC our sales domestic aircraft out of the country, is reflected in the genuineness of national interest, so he personally, with our walk in between the top of Egypt. Negotiations resumed, and soon entered into the contract price bargaining stage. Egyptians say expensive, we say expensive. Egyptians say that this can not drop a little, and I will not say one cent drop. This is not because I am Liu Guomin "cow", but I "Know thyself", know that you have to set the tone above the negotiated amount of the contract, I do not price you have to buy! Course, first I'm confident we CATIC given quoted in the international arena is reasonable. If the moment "the heart" of the price down, the other would then allow you to continue down endlessly, Arabs doing business savvy I would have had that experience before ...... talk down the final contract, we sold 44 to the Egyptian Air Force Rack J-6 aircraft and six two-seat trainer same type, as well as some aircraft engines, valued at one hundred and thirty million U.S. dollars. Another Egyptian Air Force purchased the former Soviet Union and some aviation equipment we need to repair, pay us $ 30 million Total $ 160 million. This change is the new Chinese military equipment of foreign aid, and create a new situation in a military trade export event; significance of this contract, even more than the contract itself. At that time China's guns, artillery, tanks, not to sell these conventional weapons go, we took the lead in CATIC sold out to the aircraft. So it's not just China Aviation first export orders, but also in China since the reform and opening military trade first single! saying goes, "No pain, no deal," we and the Egyptians at the negotiating table for the country to compete for profit, one cents do not let; but later the Egyptians quietly changed the specifications of our reception, giving me the head of the special feature of the car. When we come to Cairo nobody dinner, before leaving Egypt has held a grand farewell banquet. Fight to call the negotiating table and eventually we had become friends. Mentioned here is worth mentioning that there is an anecdote. We go to the farewell banquet, thinking that I may give a toast hello, we eat and drink meal finished thing. I did not expect the other side quite formal, printed out the manuscript, stand up, "scripted." Speech was my turn, I also pretended to pull out a notebook that has to carry, just open a respectable way to start, thanks Yeah, Friendship Yeah, I wish it said a lot of courtesy's Speech; also from time to notebook glance - in fact, the book above had nothing, I opened a blank page! regards company veteran comrades knew when I signed in Cairo, take printed with Chinese national emblem of the "desk sign" to deal with the story of the Egyptians , the truth is this: a good talk came to signing the contract, the other party suddenly proposed to take a look at my "power of attorney." People mention this requirement is reasonable, so much a contract, not what people can sign up on the. Where can I have ah? ! I came to Egypt has not power of attorney, and even abroad approvals are not. I have not told you earlier, Lu Dong minister has courage, approvals do not dare to send me to go, but in the end people want to Egyptian Yougejiaodai it. I look calm, calm open black briefcase from the inside out, a fine card. This card is accompanied by three machines had led me to Romania visit, Chinese Embassy in Romania at the welcoming banquet tables placed on the sign. Emblazoned with the coat of arms, and my name Liu Guomin. I was put into the bag as a personal collection, I did not expect at this critical moment came in handy. When I solemnly put the "desk to sign" handed to go after, they carefully scrutinize the national emblem and the national emblem of the PRC under my name, smiled and shook my hand. Frankly, this is not called "Mongolian thing", and called "quick-witted." Of course, in each other's eyes, I unimpeded access to the Chinese Embassy, China's ambassador go-between for me personally, this is sufficient to prove my identity a. And look at the "power of attorney", that is just before signing the Egyptians accustomed to a routine formality. Later in this big contract between Egypt performs pretty well, so I go to Egypt when treatment is not the same. Other arrangement admitted to the presidential suite five-star hotel, treated like an old friend delicious drink entertain with. J-6 after the implementation of the contract between the cold and Egypt then a few years, followed with CATIC signed a bigger contract from China to introduce K-8E production lines, assembly 80 jet trainer, it was after any more. Postscript I remember incumbent president of AVIC International Wu Guang Quan said, is because Egypt this "pot of gold", then part of CATIC Shenzhen Company, created only with adequate capital. The army engaged in foreign trade business earns, construction and non-domestic branches used in the field of aviation market development, indicating that the older generation of leaders CATIC has a long-term vision, that we still benefit from today. CATIC's old comrades, remember Liu went to Egypt, the first year is the "ministry with only five dollars," the road. In this regard Mr. Liu himself explains it this way: in March 1979 before he went abroad, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Department three machines still preserved after returning to the previous foreign aid workers, and paid in foreign countries do not run out of the $ 5, deliberately let him bring ; to prepare for when the airport transit outside the bathroom, buy mineral water, or pay the necessary tip. Mr. Liu said he was in Egypt signed a big contract billions of dollars, but also these $ 5 "Ends bi Zhao." I have heard here, can not help being moved. Today, $ 5 for people who already insignificant, may Liu then "listen Junming, will be out" when he knew the U.S. dollar against the significance of the development of the aviation industry. "Even if one U.S. dollar is good" - so he could spend dollars in foreign cash and brought back. Lopsided of CATIC entrepreneurs, they have gone through wasted, but it is left demeanor ......
Re: China makes global inroads on arms sale, NYT
or china can offer engineering consultant services. like say some country wants to develop an aircraft but have no windtunnels for aerodynamic testing china can do that for you.
or china can offer engineering consultant services. like say some country wants to develop an aircraft but have no windtunnels for aerodynamic testing china can do that for you.
