Chinese infantry fighting vehicles

gelgoog said:

Type 10 tank, the K21 IFV, or the K9 howitzer, China still has some ways to go.

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Type 10 is a nice tank but sits on the lighter side aimed for mobility across the island nation of Japan. Where Type 99 And Type 96 are targeted more to the Asian mainland.
Comparing the two forgets that type 10 is a home body.
K21 I think is a bit on the lighter side armor wise but what it really owns is that main gun a 40mm bofor easily out classes any In service IFV gun but the BMP 1 And 3. ( equals the French British CTA, neither the 50mm Bushmaster or 57mm Russian in service. ) by contrast the armament found on the displayed VN11 is lack luster better than a 25mm bit more or less par for the course 30mm.
The Type 4 armament pack being identical to the BMP3 yet it seems overkill having two main guns means eating up more interior volume for ammo. Which is why it seems the Russians want to move to a universal 57mm.
The recent interest of the PLA is there own indigenous 40mm CTA which if mated to a VN11 would be a very tough machine. Matched only by perhaps T15 with a 57mm or the OMFV with a 50mm
The combination of fire power, range and armor.

K9 is generally the modern benchmark of 155mm SPH guns. The Chinese vehicles seem to compare fairly to it.

plawolf said:

I think a big part of the rationale for wanting a converted/retrofitted 59 is preferable is the speed at which such units could be mass converted of war looks actually likely.

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That's what I have been saying. Rather than push R&D that would take time and energy. Then forcing the start of a whole new line of vehicles the PLA seems to have taken a page from the US Army AMPV. Start with an in Service type and reconfigure to fill a gap.

Where we differ in on the where that gap is my bet is that these are going to end up in the second line units replacing older vehicles in the APC and IFV roles. Well the Front line units continue with the more specialized vehicles.

An export-oriented landkreuzer heavy IFV variant of the VT-4 was displayed at a defense exhibition. Take note of the multiple RWSs at the rear.

^If there is a non export variant of this, it’ll probably be a contender for mankind’s most armored vehicle. Looks like a Warhammer 40K tank.

Also those rear guns are so strange

SinoSoldier said:

An export-oriented landkreuzer heavy IFV variant of the VT-4 was displayed at a defense exhibition. Take note of the multiple RWSs at the rear.

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Well a model of it.
Perhaps LandFrigate?
If memory serves the VT4 is based off the Type 90 tank hull so that's got plenty of room.
I am guessing based on the vents on the model that they were thinking of a two engine coupled electric drive. As that's the only place the model seems to have any induction of a exhaust but the ramp is right between them and you have two.
The machine guns on the back are ridiculous...

Biscuits said:

^If there is a non export variant of this, it’ll probably be a contender for mankind’s most armored vehicle. Looks like a Warhammer 40K tank.

Also those rear guns are so strange

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Nope, ground vehicles in the modern era Nammer for the win. Despite having lost it's turret the Nammer kept the same weight as the Merkava Mk4. That's because the Isrealis then up armored it even more and at 60 tons. You can figure that's a hell of a lot of armor. Then there was the Maus 185 tons of Hitler tank. But even that yields to something like an old Battle Ship. I mean the Army got armor but the Navy boys.... they go big or go home.

And as to Warhammer 40K well I do have to give you this point. That turret looks like the same arrangement as the Type 04, which is based on the armament of the BMP3 so finally a vehicle I feel has the right amount of armor for that ridiculous armament. Again only thing that matches that order of Dakka is the Maus 128mm L55 main gun, 57mm L44 Coaxial and 7.92mm mgs.
Or if the Russians get around to mounting a 152mm gun and 30mm cannons of T14, because Blood for Putin Skulls for the Kremlin...

That's some pretty heavy side armor.

Skywatcher said:

That's some pretty heavy side armor.

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Yeah but if it is like in other similar vehicles it might be in detachable blocks which can be added or removed in the field.

gelgoog said:

Yeah but if it is like in other similar vehicles it might be in detachable blocks which can be added or removed in the field.

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That's generally the rule for military vehicles the Skirts have to be removable as how else do you maintain the tracks?

The design seems kind of far fetched to me. Particularly the back turrets. But it does somewhat resemble the T-15 IFV. Also it goes in line with the heavy infantry combat vehicle concepts which were being considered back in the Obama administration.

Still I think if this ever enters production it will be severely modified. I think the Chinese would be better off investing on a new universal tank platform.

The export version based on VT-4 would probably not be most heavily armored, but the domestic version based on China’s own tanks would be.

I mean the 99 itself weighs almost 60 tons as well, and assuming they move the engine to the front and add on more armor...

Despite being heavy, the Maus only has about 200mm armor from the front, making it less armored than T72. The Maus gun, being WW2 era is also way worse than even the relatively lackluster Type 04A armaments, although this IFV clearly loses to tanks when it comes to armament.

Sheer weight wise, it’s defintely not the heaviest ever (that distinction probably goes to oil tanker, or some mining vechicle if we are talking land only), I’m talking RHA eqvuialent armor.

gelgoog said:

The design seems kind of far fetched to me. Particularly the back turrets. But it does somewhat resemble the T-15 IFV. Also it goes in line with the heavy infantry combat vehicle concepts which were being considered back in the Obama administration.

Still I think if this ever enters production it will be severely modified. I think the Chinese would be better off investing on a new universal tank platform.

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I doubt the PLA would go that way.

Although a universal has some strong logic its based on the assumption that most of your potential operations are on your boarders. The Merkava Nammer is perfect case in point where are they potentially deploying? Yeah road trip.

The Russians designed the T14/T15 along with thw Kurgatez 25 And Typhoon well still making BMD and BMP upgrades because T15 is really the home defence machine.
All the other vehicles are closer to the fight.

The Type 59 based HIFV and HAPC has the bonus points of being cheap with large surplus tanks in inventory ready for conversion. Perfect for re-equipping units operating in the Gobi and not expected to deploy abroad except over land the Type 59 being light enough to operate in high country.
This based on Type 96 or 99 wouldn't have any amphibious capabilities a need for the front line of the PLA's most likely engagement of actual combat. It would require massive resources to deploy it even across the straight because of need to secure a port before it could be deployed.
It's heavier weight also strikes against operations in the highlands. Although it would be able to keep up with tanks no doubt more support would have to given to it in the form of bridging and transport.

Basically neat idea but like the fans who want Abrams or Leopard IFVs not likely to happen beyond a prototype. Something like VN17 is more reasonable I think.