《One Hundred Years of Solitude》
Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)
- Thread starter A.Man
- Start date
... that's really blind of you...
the american's high speed progams are miles away, in fact their most recently failed test few days ago was roughly the same technology level of China in around 2007...
Russian, has never test any hybird power system...
in fact, this is the first test outside the lab in the real world. and based on the participate party, this might be one of the pioneer program of the "Tengyun" aerospace plane project, which is completely differnt story
the video about 斜爆轰冲压 you quote was indeed one of the new technology recently, the speed was somewhere from inbetween ramjet and scramjet
but A, it was in the lab, and very early stage in the lab, B, the fact that the team has no idea how to engineering it as the moment... so not in the same level at all
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You know what, that’s exactly what the Americans said when FOBS did it last year. What was it again…? “Break the laws of physics”
Okay with well known and verifiable details we have got the following for hypersonic aircraft/ SSTO/ spaceplane/ hypersonic weapons.
Tsinghua university's detonation engine
Northwest Polytech combined cycle engine
Flying scramjets (decades past the lab level)
A "sodramjet"
Unspecified propulsion for global ranged hypersonic craft that circumnavigated the globe last year.
Unspecified propulsion on hypersonic cruise missile(s) in service and/or testing but most likely scramjet or sodramjet to keep costs down (so no combined cycle).
Df-zf is a glider.
Long ranged hypersonic was recorded "releasing" a payload which US says may be nuclear delivery payload or interceptor and China's hinted at interceptor when describing it as a vehicle self defence system.
And everything strategically and militarily sensitive is totally not revealed to public.
This is a near twenty year lead on the US.
Tsinghua university's detonation engine
Northwest Polytech combined cycle engine
Flying scramjets (decades past the lab level)
A "sodramjet"
Unspecified propulsion for global ranged hypersonic craft that circumnavigated the globe last year.
Unspecified propulsion on hypersonic cruise missile(s) in service and/or testing but most likely scramjet or sodramjet to keep costs down (so no combined cycle).
Df-zf is a glider.
Long ranged hypersonic was recorded "releasing" a payload which US says may be nuclear delivery payload or interceptor and China's hinted at interceptor when describing it as a vehicle self defence system.
And everything strategically and militarily sensitive is totally not revealed to public.
This is a near twenty year lead on the US.
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Xi Yazhou got a hold of his friend working in hypersonic field again to discuss the recent tests.
He says yes, even among people working in combined cycle engines who love to boast about every little achievement this test is considered extraordinary. Imagine how hard it is to get a scramjet working, then realize a working scramjet is only a very tiny part of this test.
According to TSTO, everybody is focusing a bit too much on the fact that this engine can transition seamlessly between four different modes. Indeed that is groundbreaking, but the jargon is disguising another never seen before breakthrough:
An adjustable thermal throat gets around this problem by using small rocket engines on the inside of the combine cycle engine. The hot rocket exhaust is directed by the geometry of the engine so that the rocket exhaust itself forms an adjustable de Laval nozzle. This is what the "ramjet/rocket" mode actually means. When operating in this mode the rockets contribute very little thrust to the overall RBCC engine, rather they are mostly working as the nozzle for the ramjet.
TSTO also says RBCC engines designed this way, because they lack a physical de Laval nozzle can't actually work in a pure ramjet mode and the rocket will always have to be on to some capacity until scramjet kicks in. So although news report say there's a ramjet mode most likely what they mean is an where the rocket engines are firing and they serve mostly to heat and compress intake air which greatly improve the rocket's specific impulse and allows engine to produce thrust down to zero air speed unlike a normal ramjet.
During scramjet/rocket mode, mostly likely what's happening is the rocket is running in an oxidizer rich cycle which then produces rocket exhaust with a lot of oxidizer still left, this enriches the incoming air and allows scramjet to provide more thrust than it would otherwise be able to in flight regimes where scramjet is not normally optimized for.
He reckons the engine's modes are probably:
Mach 0-2: air-augmented rocket/ramjet mode
Mach 2-4: ramjet/rocket mode
Mach 4-6: scramjet mode
Mach 6-7: scramjet/rocket mode
Although the engine does switch between distinct modes at different speed, within a mode the engine will still need to finely monitor and adjust parameters, so that the boundary between different mode might be a bit fuzzy.
I tried to search up research paper on thermal throat and well what do you know, they're all about usage in scramjet/RBCC engine and written by Chinese researchers
He says yes, even among people working in combined cycle engines who love to boast about every little achievement this test is considered extraordinary. Imagine how hard it is to get a scramjet working, then realize a working scramjet is only a very tiny part of this test.
According to TSTO, everybody is focusing a bit too much on the fact that this engine can transition seamlessly between four different modes. Indeed that is groundbreaking, but the jargon is disguising another never seen before breakthrough:
He says this part here, adjustable thermal throat is a decisive technological breakthrough and a key feature that allows this engine to function both as a ramjet and a scramjet. When the engine is working in scramjet or scramjet/rocket mode the air flow through the engine is supersonic the whole way through, in which case the engine can be thought of a just a simple straight tube. However during ramjet/rocket mode there is a problem: some part through the engine the flow is subsonic, and after the combustion chamber there is a need to convert this very hot but subsonic exhaust into cooler supersonic exhaust. This is normally done via a , the hourglass shaped looking thing you see at the bottom of rocket engines. In pure ramjet engine this is easy because you can just shape the engine into that shape and do it mechanically, however doing this in a combine cycle engine would case huge problems because in a combine cycle engine the nozzle will cause choked flow once the engine transition to scramjet mode.
An adjustable thermal throat gets around this problem by using small rocket engines on the inside of the combine cycle engine. The hot rocket exhaust is directed by the geometry of the engine so that the rocket exhaust itself forms an adjustable de Laval nozzle. This is what the "ramjet/rocket" mode actually means. When operating in this mode the rockets contribute very little thrust to the overall RBCC engine, rather they are mostly working as the nozzle for the ramjet.
TSTO also says RBCC engines designed this way, because they lack a physical de Laval nozzle can't actually work in a pure ramjet mode and the rocket will always have to be on to some capacity until scramjet kicks in. So although news report say there's a ramjet mode most likely what they mean is an where the rocket engines are firing and they serve mostly to heat and compress intake air which greatly improve the rocket's specific impulse and allows engine to produce thrust down to zero air speed unlike a normal ramjet.
During scramjet/rocket mode, mostly likely what's happening is the rocket is running in an oxidizer rich cycle which then produces rocket exhaust with a lot of oxidizer still left, this enriches the incoming air and allows scramjet to provide more thrust than it would otherwise be able to in flight regimes where scramjet is not normally optimized for.
He reckons the engine's modes are probably:
Mach 0-2: air-augmented rocket/ramjet mode
Mach 2-4: ramjet/rocket mode
Mach 4-6: scramjet mode
Mach 6-7: scramjet/rocket mode
Although the engine does switch between distinct modes at different speed, within a mode the engine will still need to finely monitor and adjust parameters, so that the boundary between different mode might be a bit fuzzy.
I tried to search up research paper on thermal throat and well what do you know, they're all about usage in scramjet/RBCC engine and written by Chinese researchers
Amazing!Xi Yazhou got a hold of his friend working in hypersonic field again to discuss the recent tests.
He says yes, even among people working in combined cycle engines who love to boast about every little achievement this test is considered extraordinary. Imagine how hard it is to get a scramjet working, then realize a working scramjet is only a very tiny part of this test.
According to TSTO, everybody is focusing a bit too much on the fact that this engine can transition seamlessly between four different modes. Indeed that is groundbreaking, but the jargon is disguising another never seen before breakthrough:
He says this part here, adjustable thermal throat is a decisive technological breakthrough and a key feature that allows this engine to function both as a ramjet and a scramjet. When the engine is working in scramjet or scramjet/rocket mode the air flow through the engine is supersonic the whole way through, in which case the engine can be thought of a just a simple straight tube. However during ramjet/rocket mode there is a problem: some part through the engine the flow is subsonic, and after the combustion chamber there is a need to convert this very hot but subsonic exhaust into cooler supersonic exhaust. This is normally done via a , the hourglass shaped looking thing you see at the bottom of rocket engines. In pure ramjet engine this is easy because you can just shape the engine into that shape and do it mechanically, however doing this in a combine cycle engine would case huge problems because in a combine cycle engine the nozzle will cause choked flow once the engine transition to scramjet mode.
An adjustable thermal throat gets around this problem by using small rocket engines on the inside of the combine cycle engine. The hot rocket exhaust is directed by the geometry of the engine so that the rocket exhaust itself forms an adjustable de Laval nozzle. This is what the "ramjet/rocket" mode actually means. When operating in this mode the rockets contribute very little thrust to the overall RBCC engine, rather they are mostly working as the nozzle for the ramjet.
TSTO also says RBCC engines designed this way, because they lack a physical de Laval nozzle can't actually work in a pure ramjet mode and the rocket will always have to be on to some capacity until scramjet kicks in. So although news report say there's a ramjet mode most likely what they mean is an where the rocket engines are firing and they serve mostly to heat and compress intake air which greatly improve the rocket's specific impulse and allows engine to produce thrust down to zero air speed unlike a normal ramjet.
During scramjet/rocket mode, mostly likely what's happening is the rocket is running in an oxidizer rich cycle which then produces rocket exhaust with a lot of oxidizer still left, this enriches the incoming air and allows scramjet to provide more thrust than it would otherwise be able to in flight regimes where scramjet is not normally optimized for.
He reckons the engine's modes are probably:
Mach 0-2: air-augmented rocket/ramjet mode
Mach 2-4: ramjet/rocket mode
Mach 4-6: scramjet mode
Mach 6-7: scramjet/rocket mode
Although the engine does switch between distinct modes at different speed, within a mode the engine will still need to finely monitor and adjust parameters, so that the boundary between different mode might be a bit fuzzy.
I tried to search up research paper on thermal throat and well what do you know, they're all about usage in scramjet/RBCC engine and written by Chinese researchers
So, if I understand correctly, there is no need for a turbine engine at all, and this engine/system doesn’t actually need the large booster to start a test, it should be able to launch itself.
This system will be able to do tests starting at scramjet speeds as well as at 0 speed.
Although it can start from 0 air speed doesn't necessarily mean it's ideally suited for it. TSTO did also say we should consider this engine to be an engineering demonstrator still and not intended for practical application straight away. You're not going to get PLAAF rocking up tomorrow and say "welp looks good, I want that inside WZ-8". That said it does pave the way big time for Tengyun's engine which will also need to do a lot of mode switching.
I agree, this is going to be mainly used as a test platform for the polytechnics future experiments and research into things like sensors, communication, navigation and verifying wind tunnel data.
The recoverable booster allows the entire engine to be changed easily and is itself a great platform.
Honestly, the US needs to just copy this beautifully designed system.
No, what I’m trying to emphasize is “scramjet today has no future, detonation drive is the future ”, and 斜爆轰冲压 is more like a scramjet than RDE which makes it far easier to integrate into TBCC/TRRE we are developing today .
And forget about the whole “early stage ” thing, I totally agree with the conclusion this old man came into: we’ve had this theory for more than 50 years , and there’s still no practical products out there ( with a lifespan long enough for space launch or military aircraft), and through years of development, it has been clear that due to the loss of compression , both TWR and thrust are extremely limited ,far from ideal.
In another word , this thing might not be THE future, but it’s looking good, even if it doesn’t work, experience and data could be used for RDE.
It doesn’t matter what Mercedes made in 1907 ,what matters is , Ford released model-T in 1908
Just to add.. I agree it’s not a great idea to start at zero, but it could be launched by electromagnetic catapult to an initial speed of a few hundred km/h before starting the ramjet (in the rockets exhaust).
I imagine an electric UVLS on future destroyers being able to launch missiles vertically at high speeds.
I imagine an electric UVLS on future destroyers being able to launch missiles vertically at high speeds.