Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
We don't actually know the general design of the Avangard. All that is known is that it is a "glider".

And as obvious now, common hypersonic glide body and wedge shape HGVs are both gliders... HGVs.

The two above are arguing within the same set. But it's also worth remembering that some HGVs may not require a tailored booster while others do. Because the Avangard may be using same old boosters as non-HGV ballistic missiles (and let's assume that Avangard is a wedge shaped HGV) does not mean DF-17 recycle any old non-HGV ballistic missile's booster.

As for the argument over glide body geometries. The LRHW is a glider like the DF-17 is a glider. They are two distinct design approaches.

I recall seeing a paper with a figure summarising some of the glider geometries China has tested throughout the 2000s and 2010s. This set of shapes include quite a few double conical designs - what the US calls the common glide body. It seems to be a very basic way to achieve HGV. The wedge designs seem a lot more fantastical I suppose. For one, the aerodynamics of the wedge shaped glider designs imply far greater lift ratio compared to double cone gliders. But it could also mean reduced speeds and much greater difficulty in control. If China can get the wedge shaped design working in the 2010s, that should say quite a lot about its capabilities in aerodynamics and flight control tech. Consider its well known list of the highest speeds achieved in various hypersonic tunnels helping with this.

DF-21D is MaRV, not claimed to be a HGV. DF-26 is likely just a longer ranged version of DF-21D achieving control using MaRV. LRHW is the US' pursuit of a DF-17 like equivalent. Would be lovely to see what a DF-27 HGV section looks like. And of course, the Avangard.
An C-HGV + LRHW is absolutely not a DF-17 equivalent. Not remotely close. Trying to make that argument is like trying to argue that a Chinese H-6K is the equivalent of a B-2. Form follows function. At best, the C-HGV + LRHW is a DF-21D or DF-26 equivalent.
 

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
An C-HGV + LRHW is absolutely not a DF-17 equivalent. Not remotely close. Trying to make that argument is like trying to argue that a Chinese H-6K is the equivalent of a B-2. Form follows function. At best, the C-HGV + LRHW is a DF-21D or DF-26 equivalent.
Can LRHW hit moving targets though? Most info seems to point that it can't.
 

totenchan

Junior Member
Registered Member
An C-HGV + LRHW is absolutely not a DF-17 equivalent. Not remotely close. Trying to make that argument is like trying to argue that a Chinese H-6K is the equivalent of a B-2. Form follows function. At best, the C-HGV + LRHW is a DF-21D or DF-26 equivalent.
Cannot tell if you are unfamiliar with MaRVs, unfamiliar with HGVs, or both.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
LRHW can perform hypersonic glide, lateral maneuvers with lift and has the ability to elevate its altitude doesnt it? Therefore it is technically a glide vehicle like the DF-17. I never said it is identical to the DF-17. Only that it represents a similar class of weapon for the US i.e. a HGV. It is a less sophisticated HGV because double conical style gliders have long been abandoned by China and replaced with wedge shaped HGVs.

As for comparing the LRHW to DF-21 and DF-26 MaRV weapons, well the DF-21 and DF-26 are not HGVs are far as we know. They are MaRV anti-ship ballistic missiles. They do not perform significant lateral maneuvers and do not elevate their altitudes in terminal flight like the DF-17 or LRHW.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
LRHW can perform hypersonic glide, lateral maneuvers with lift and has the ability to elevate its altitude doesnt it? Therefore it is technically a glide vehicle like the DF-17. I never said it is identical to the DF-17. Only that it represents a similar class of weapon for the US i.e. a HGV. It is a less sophisticated HGV because double conical style gliders have long been abandoned by China and replaced with wedge shaped HGVs.

As for comparing the LRHW to DF-21 and DF-26 MaRV weapons, well the DF-21 and DF-26 are not HGVs are far as we know. They are MaRV anti-ship ballistic missiles. They do not perform significant lateral maneuvers and do not elevate their altitudes in terminal flight like the DF-17 or LRHW.
I have yet to see any real evidence that it can perform as you claim. Only claims by USG that you insist on echoing word for word as if it is truth.
 

totenchan

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have yet to see any real evidence that it can perform as you claim.
Did you look at the NOTAMs that started this whole conversation?
Only claims by USG that you insist on echoing word for word as if it is truth.
What sort of argument is this? In that case, most of the claims for the performance of the DF-17 come from the Chinese government. Congratulations on achieving the same train of logic as those people that claim the DF-17 is completely fake.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
If the LRHW biconic can "maneuver" and "glide" then so can the Kinzhal or the Iskander.
It is kind of obvious something with a flat underbelly like the DF-17 will have much better glide capabilities.

The US had a DARPA program to make something like that, the HTV, but it was a failure.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Did you look at the NOTAMs that started this whole conversation?

What sort of argument is this? In that case, most of the claims for the performance of the DF-17 come from the Chinese government. Congratulations on achieving the same train of logic as those people that claim the DF-17 is completely fake.
When it comes to aerodynamics, form very much follows function. If you don't even understand that much, you should at least go take a year of college level physics courses. Or even just do some very basic study of aerospace engineering that even a slightly intelligent highschool student can understand. SMH at these liberal arts or highschool (only) educated clowns.
 
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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
If the LRHW biconic can "manuever" and "glide" then so can the Kinzhal or the Iskander.
It is kind of obvious something with a flat underbelly like the DF-17 will have much better glide capabilities.
Yup. It's obvious to anyone that has studied physics at a college level or higher. These retards couldn't pass a college level physics course if their lives depended on it though. One only has to have ever solved a few varied calculations for lift force to understand what the C-HGV is probably capable (or incapable) of vis a vis the DF-17. Not in precise detail, but definitely at least in general terms. If even that is too complicated for these clowns, then they should ponder to themselves why plane wings are the size, shape, and length they are instead of trying to fly airplanes designed as cones or tubes with engines and extremely tiny fins on their tail ends. Straight into the ignore list they go along with the rest of the diarrhea. Truly just a bunch of monkeys. A waste of air and a waste of everyone's time.
 
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