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Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)
- Thread starter A.Man
- Start date
So, besides the DF-17, what hypersonic weapons are there in service or in development?
There's the DF-27, which may be the same glider as for DF-17, only on a bigger rocket.
There's the DF-100, which is a cruise missile though it may or may not be actually hypersonic, nor using a scramjet engine.
There's the rumored vertical launched compact hypersonic weapon for the Navy. As seen mentioned in that one slide... Though not sure if that's glider based of cruise missile based. (cruise missile might be more useful for ship launches?) Also not sure if that's actually in service yet.
There may be further projects out there, of course. For example, as the US seems to be developing both an air launched glider and an air launched scramjet missile - it seems highly likely that those too would be developed by China as well. Those may or may not be based on existing, already mentioned, hypersonics.
There's the DF-27, which may be the same glider as for DF-17, only on a bigger rocket.
There's the DF-100, which is a cruise missile though it may or may not be actually hypersonic, nor using a scramjet engine.
There's the rumored vertical launched compact hypersonic weapon for the Navy. As seen mentioned in that one slide... Though not sure if that's glider based of cruise missile based. (cruise missile might be more useful for ship launches?) Also not sure if that's actually in service yet.
There may be further projects out there, of course. For example, as the US seems to be developing both an air launched glider and an air launched scramjet missile - it seems highly likely that those too would be developed by China as well. Those may or may not be based on existing, already mentioned, hypersonics.
DF-100 is definitely hypersonic. There’s also the hypersonic missile we spotted on the H-6. Tbh though I’m not sure how many variations of hypersonic weapons you really need.So, besides the DF-17, what hypersonic weapons are there in service or in development?
There's the DF-27, which may be the same glider as for DF-17, only on a bigger rocket.
There's the DF-100, which is a cruise missile though it may or may not be actually hypersonic, nor using a scramjet engine.
There's the rumored vertical launched compact hypersonic weapon for the Navy. As seen mentioned in that one slide... Though not sure if that's glider based of cruise missile based. (cruise missile might be more useful for ship launches?) Also not sure if that's actually in service yet.
There may be further projects out there, of course. For example, as the US seems to be developing both an air launched glider and an air launched scramjet missile - it seems highly likely that those too would be developed by China as well. Those may or may not be based on existing, already mentioned, hypersonics.
I would personally like more indications that DF-100 is a hypersonic missile weapon. Firstly, I am using the term "Hypersonic missile" not as a term describing an object going over mach 5, but one that, while doing that, is capable of performing complex maneuvres. Such as making a 360 turn, or a series of 90 degree turns, and so on. All the while flying at altitudes of over 40 kilometers, so it stays in the safe zone between regular air defense systems and exoatmospheric ones. Those parameters are the reasons why weapons labeled as "hypersonic missiles" seem to be either gliders or are scramjet powered.
Now, I have that info from the anonymous announcer at the 2019 parade which said the weapon is hypersonic. I don't know if whoever authored that description used the same definition of a hypersonic missile as me. It could be they used the definition of simply any missile that reaches mach 5. Even if the definition is closer to mine, I still don't know if the term "hypersonic" was simply used in error.
That's because there are indications which seem to conflict with that parade announcement. Around that time Chinese news outlets were citing "anonymous sources" saying that DF-100 has a speed of mach 4 to mach 5. That would not really make the weapon a "hypersonic missile" in the above definition of the term.
Granted, those media outlets' credibility may be even lower than one of an anonymous announcer at a parade.
But then I have that one video clip which seems to depict a launch of the DF-100 missile. While blurry, certain attributes can still be ascertained. It has wide mid body strakes. Those are not really compatible with nor useful to, to my knowledge, true hypersonic missiles, going very high up and at great velocities. It also has something near the end of the missile stage. Which sort of resemble ramjet intakes. Or those could be intermediate stage boosters. Or something else. Hard to tell. The nose of the missile is rather wide, until the very end. It looks like a ramjet missile intake, similar to Brahmos, operating in the mach 4-5 region at altitudes of up to 30 km would look like. It doesn't look very narrow and sharp, the way nose of scramjet missile would look like. The way Russian Cirkon or US scramjet demonstrator missiles have been depicted so far.
That nose is, however, conducive to a nose used on the US HyFly missile demonstrator. That one used a combined ramjet and scramjet propulsion. It also had an intake roughly similar to one used on Brahmos. It could either fly at up to mach 6 for a shorter duration, or reach a longer range while flying at mach 4. I guess I'd call it a borderline hypersonic missile.
So... I wish I could unequivocally say it's a hypersonic missile. Or that it is not. But with all the info I have, I fear I have to remain in the "I don't know" camp for now. Until more and better info emerges.
Now, I have that info from the anonymous announcer at the 2019 parade which said the weapon is hypersonic. I don't know if whoever authored that description used the same definition of a hypersonic missile as me. It could be they used the definition of simply any missile that reaches mach 5. Even if the definition is closer to mine, I still don't know if the term "hypersonic" was simply used in error.
That's because there are indications which seem to conflict with that parade announcement. Around that time Chinese news outlets were citing "anonymous sources" saying that DF-100 has a speed of mach 4 to mach 5. That would not really make the weapon a "hypersonic missile" in the above definition of the term.
Granted, those media outlets' credibility may be even lower than one of an anonymous announcer at a parade.
But then I have that one video clip which seems to depict a launch of the DF-100 missile. While blurry, certain attributes can still be ascertained. It has wide mid body strakes. Those are not really compatible with nor useful to, to my knowledge, true hypersonic missiles, going very high up and at great velocities. It also has something near the end of the missile stage. Which sort of resemble ramjet intakes. Or those could be intermediate stage boosters. Or something else. Hard to tell. The nose of the missile is rather wide, until the very end. It looks like a ramjet missile intake, similar to Brahmos, operating in the mach 4-5 region at altitudes of up to 30 km would look like. It doesn't look very narrow and sharp, the way nose of scramjet missile would look like. The way Russian Cirkon or US scramjet demonstrator missiles have been depicted so far.
That nose is, however, conducive to a nose used on the US HyFly missile demonstrator. That one used a combined ramjet and scramjet propulsion. It also had an intake roughly similar to one used on Brahmos. It could either fly at up to mach 6 for a shorter duration, or reach a longer range while flying at mach 4. I guess I'd call it a borderline hypersonic missile.
So... I wish I could unequivocally say it's a hypersonic missile. Or that it is not. But with all the info I have, I fear I have to remain in the "I don't know" camp for now. Until more and better info emerges.
Would not be surprising if it was just 'hypersonic' in that it can reach above mach 5 (maybe only for a shorter period and not even for full or most of the flight course).I would personally like more indications that DF-100 is a hypersonic missile weapon. Firstly, I am using the term "Hypersonic missile" not as a term describing an object going over mach 5, but one that, while doing that, is capable of performing complex maneuvres. Such as making a 360 turn, or a series of 90 degree turns, and so on. All the while flying at altitudes of over 40 kilometers, so it stays in the safe zone between regular air defense systems and exoatmospheric ones. Those parameters are the reasons why weapons labeled as "hypersonic missiles" seem to be either gliders or are scramjet powered.
Now, I have that info from the anonymous announcer at the 2019 parade which said the weapon is hypersonic. I don't know if whoever authored that description used the same definition of a hypersonic missile as me. It could be they used the definition of simply any missile that reaches mach 5. Even if the definition is closer to mine, I still don't know if the term "hypersonic" was simply used in error.
That's because there are indications which seem to conflict with that parade announcement. Around that time Chinese news outlets were citing "anonymous sources" saying that DF-100 has a speed of mach 4 to mach 5. That would not really make the weapon a "hypersonic missile" in the above definition of the term.
Granted, those media outlets' credibility may be even lower than one of an anonymous announcer at a parade.
But then I have that one video clip which seems to depict a launch of the DF-100 missile. While blurry, certain attributes can still be ascertained. It has wide mid body strakes. Those are not really compatible with nor useful to, to my knowledge, true hypersonic missiles, going very high up and at great velocities. It also has something near the end of the missile stage. Which sort of resemble ramjet intakes. Or those could be intermediate stage boosters. Or something else. Hard to tell. The nose of the missile is rather wide, until the very end. It looks like a ramjet missile intake, similar to Brahmos, operating in the mach 4-5 region at altitudes of up to 30 km would look like. It doesn't look very narrow and sharp, the way nose of scramjet missile would look like. The way Russian Cirkon or US scramjet demonstrator missiles have been depicted so far.
That nose is, however, conducive to a nose used on the US HyFly missile demonstrator. That one used a combined ramjet and scramjet propulsion. It also had an intake roughly similar to one used on Brahmos. It could either fly at up to mach 6 for a shorter duration, or reach a longer range while flying at mach 4. I guess I'd call it a borderline hypersonic missile.
So... I wish I could unequivocally say it's a hypersonic missile. Or that it is not. But with all the info I have, I fear I have to remain in the "I don't know" camp for now. Until more and better info emerges.
That would still be hypersonic as in above mach 5, but not hypersonic in the way you defined it at the start of the post.
Why would a hypersonic missile need to do 90 degree turns? Don’t think even HGVs are meant to do that (or even capable of it). When you’re going at hypersonic speeds you don’t need that much angular change to avoid countermeasures. Even slight angular shifts lead to large distance displacements.I would personally like more indications that DF-100 is a hypersonic missile weapon. Firstly, I am using the term "Hypersonic missile" not as a term describing an object going over mach 5, but one that, while doing that, is capable of performing complex maneuvres. Such as making a 360 turn, or a series of 90 degree turns, and so on. All the while flying at altitudes of over 40 kilometers, so it stays in the safe zone between regular air defense systems and exoatmospheric ones. Those parameters are the reasons why weapons labeled as "hypersonic missiles" seem to be either gliders or are scramjet powered.
Now, I have that info from the anonymous announcer at the 2019 parade which said the weapon is hypersonic. I don't know if whoever authored that description used the same definition of a hypersonic missile as me. It could be they used the definition of simply any missile that reaches mach 5. Even if the definition is closer to mine, I still don't know if the term "hypersonic" was simply used in error.
That's because there are indications which seem to conflict with that parade announcement. Around that time Chinese news outlets were citing "anonymous sources" saying that DF-100 has a speed of mach 4 to mach 5. That would not really make the weapon a "hypersonic missile" in the above definition of the term.
Granted, those media outlets' credibility may be even lower than one of an anonymous announcer at a parade.
But then I have that one video clip which seems to depict a launch of the DF-100 missile. While blurry, certain attributes can still be ascertained. It has wide mid body strakes. Those are not really compatible with nor useful to, to my knowledge, true hypersonic missiles, going very high up and at great velocities. It also has something near the end of the missile stage. Which sort of resemble ramjet intakes. Or those could be intermediate stage boosters. Or something else. Hard to tell. The nose of the missile is rather wide, until the very end. It looks like a ramjet missile intake, similar to Brahmos, operating in the mach 4-5 region at altitudes of up to 30 km would look like. It doesn't look very narrow and sharp, the way nose of scramjet missile would look like. The way Russian Cirkon or US scramjet demonstrator missiles have been depicted so far.
That nose is, however, conducive to a nose used on the US HyFly missile demonstrator. That one used a combined ramjet and scramjet propulsion. It also had an intake roughly similar to one used on Brahmos. It could either fly at up to mach 6 for a shorter duration, or reach a longer range while flying at mach 4. I guess I'd call it a borderline hypersonic missile.
So... I wish I could unequivocally say it's a hypersonic missile. Or that it is not. But with all the info I have, I fear I have to remain in the "I don't know" camp for now. Until more and better info emerges.
And what video clip are you referring to?
I think since we have no concrete idea on whether the DF-100 can/has truly break into the hypersonic range, I suppose that it would be safer to classify the DF-100 as a "high-supersonic missile".
Patchwork_Chimera said it was a hypersonic missile so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯I think since we have no concrete idea on whether the DF-100 can/has truly break into the hypersonic range, I suppose that it would be safer to classify the DF-100 as a "high-supersonic missile".