Chinese Engine Development

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Neither f119 nor f135 are 1:9 engines, they are of visibly lower ratio. That's because they got much heavier than previous generations, because of a bunch of other features added to them, which previous generations did not have as requirements. If modern engines were stripped of all those added requirements, I guess they would be 1:9 ratio engines.
 

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Neither f119 nor f135 are 1:9 engines, they are of visibly lower ratio. That's because they got much heavier than previous generations, because of a bunch of other features added to them, which previous generations did not have as requirements. If modern engines were stripped of all those added requirements, I guess they would be 1:9 ratio engines.
I think improved materials and design would achieve a noticeably higher T/W under the same requirements.
 

by78

General
China has brought her engine line up to IDEX 2025 at Abu Dhabi.

54336342361_bbbfaedb4e_o.jpg
54336562004_76a06beea2_o.jpg
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hopefully there would be a photo on that placard near the Taihang.

Isn't that because the 2d tvc nozzle pretty bulky?
View attachment 145755

Not just that. I think the Signature control measure also contribute to weight. particularly the rear radar blocker/injector. Not only it has to properly inject fuel for afterburner, it needs to be designed not to put too much penalty to thrust while at the same time prevent direct visibility to the rotating turbine stages. That special injector might be made entirely of high temperature resistant Radar absorber structure.

One thing for sure it cannot be magnetic RAM due to curie temperature function of magnetic material. Maybe some form of Silicone carbide. Not including any measure taken to further weaken radar reflection from the engine fan and the first 4 stages of the engine.
 
Last edited:

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Citing a paper published on the Chinese scientific journal 实验流体力学, SCMP claims that CAS has successfully tested an ODE (oblique detonation engine) burning the RP-3 kerosene in a wind tunnel. The simulated flight speed reached 9 Mach for 50ms. This is the first OBE powered by regular commercial jet fuel in the world.

Take your usual grain of salt for SCMP pieces.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

香港《南华早报》2月26日报道指出,这项研究成果由中国科学家开创性地取得,他们成功测试了全球首台由标准航空煤油驱动的斜爆震发动机(ODE),这标志着高超音速推进领域可能迎来重大变革,有望重新定义航空以及航天旅行的极限。

位于北京的JF12激波风洞能够模拟40公里以上高空的高马赫数飞行条件,中国科学院的研究人员在其中进行了一系列实验,使用常见的商用煤油RP-3喷气燃料,成功实现了持续的斜爆震波。报道称,这项已发表在学术期刊《实验流体力学》上的研究表明,该发动机的燃烧速率比传统的超音速燃烧冲压发动机快1000倍,且能在6马赫至16马赫之间的范围内运行,而这是传统吸气式发动机难以达到。

报道指出,这项科研技术是中国一项宏伟计划的一部分,如果将斜爆震发动机应用于军事,将催生出新一代高超音速导弹、无人机甚至轰炸机,这些武器将具有超长射程和低运营成本,能使解放军在未来的战争中占据显著优势。

超音速燃烧冲压发动机需要庞大的燃烧室,且在高马赫数之下存在熄火的风险。而与之不同的是,斜爆震发动机发动机则将斜爆震波视为一种支撑力量。

工程师们发现,通过在燃烧室壁上巧妙地放置一个5毫米凸块,可以诱导出自我维持的“爆震”,这是一种由超高速冲击波驱动的爆炸,在微秒级时间内即可完成燃烧。

“冲击波如此剧烈地压缩并点燃燃料-空气混合物,从而产生了一个自我强化的爆炸前沿。”中国科学院力学研究所的该项目研究团队这这样写道。

在9马赫的速度下,测试显示爆炸点的压力峰值达到了环境水平的20倍,这表明该发动机能够在大多数超音速燃烧冲压发动机几乎无法工作的速度范围内产生相当大的推力。

由于所需功率巨大,风洞仅支持50毫秒的持续运行——这相当于以9马赫速度飞行约150米。不过,这对于研究人员全面了解发动机点火和自我维持冲击波推进的全貌已经足够了。

研究人员介绍,与超音速燃烧冲压发动机设计相比,这种新发动机的燃烧室缩短了85%,可以显著减轻飞机的重量并延长飞行距离。

《南华早报》指出,数十年来,高超音速发动机一直依赖氢气或乙烯作为燃料,虽然这些燃料点火迅速,但其存储要求却不切实际。另一方面,RP-3煤油虽然在逻辑上更理想,能量密度更高,但其点火延迟时间过长,使得发动机在飞行中途启动极为困难。

如今,中科院研究团队通过在点火前将燃料-空气混合物预压缩至3800开尔文(约合3527摄氏度),引入一个小凸块以产生局部“热点”来触发链式反应,并使用翼形支柱加速燃料分散,从而规避了这一难题。

报道提到,这一科研项目是中国一项雄心勃勃的计划的一部分,该计划旨在到2030年建造一架能够在一小时内抵达全球任何地方的飞机。这项技术的速度为16马赫,相当于20000公里/小时,或半小时内从上海飞往洛杉矶,将使可重复使用的太空飞机实现大气层和轨道飞行的衔接。

如果将斜爆震发动机应用于军事技术,其将催生新一代高超音速导弹、无人机甚至轰炸机,这些武器将具有超长射程和低运营成本,能使解放军在未来的战争中占据显著优势。

不过,目前在科研中也仍存在着障碍。据科研团队介绍,研究人员需要更深入地了解RP-3煤油在爆炸燃烧过程中及燃烧后的副产品,并需要优化凸起配置,以提高发动机的实际飞行效率。

1740600601903.jpeg
 

Maikeru

Major
Registered Member
Citing a paper published on the Chinese scientific journal 实验流体力学, SCMP claims that CAS has successfully tested an ODE (oblique detonation engine) burning the RP-3 kerosene in a wind tunnel. The simulated flight speed reached 9 Mach for 50ms. This is the first OBE powered by regular commercial jet fuel in the world.

Take your usual grain of salt for SCMP pieces.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

香港《南华早报》2月26日报道指出,这项研究成果由中国科学家开创性地取得,他们成功测试了全球首台由标准航空煤油驱动的斜爆震发动机(ODE),这标志着高超音速推进领域可能迎来重大变革,有望重新定义航空以及航天旅行的极限。

位于北京的JF12激波风洞能够模拟40公里以上高空的高马赫数飞行条件,中国科学院的研究人员在其中进行了一系列实验,使用常见的商用煤油RP-3喷气燃料,成功实现了持续的斜爆震波。报道称,这项已发表在学术期刊《实验流体力学》上的研究表明,该发动机的燃烧速率比传统的超音速燃烧冲压发动机快1000倍,且能在6马赫至16马赫之间的范围内运行,而这是传统吸气式发动机难以达到。

报道指出,这项科研技术是中国一项宏伟计划的一部分,如果将斜爆震发动机应用于军事,将催生出新一代高超音速导弹、无人机甚至轰炸机,这些武器将具有超长射程和低运营成本,能使解放军在未来的战争中占据显著优势。

超音速燃烧冲压发动机需要庞大的燃烧室,且在高马赫数之下存在熄火的风险。而与之不同的是,斜爆震发动机发动机则将斜爆震波视为一种支撑力量。

工程师们发现,通过在燃烧室壁上巧妙地放置一个5毫米凸块,可以诱导出自我维持的“爆震”,这是一种由超高速冲击波驱动的爆炸,在微秒级时间内即可完成燃烧。

“冲击波如此剧烈地压缩并点燃燃料-空气混合物,从而产生了一个自我强化的爆炸前沿。”中国科学院力学研究所的该项目研究团队这这样写道。

在9马赫的速度下,测试显示爆炸点的压力峰值达到了环境水平的20倍,这表明该发动机能够在大多数超音速燃烧冲压发动机几乎无法工作的速度范围内产生相当大的推力。

由于所需功率巨大,风洞仅支持50毫秒的持续运行——这相当于以9马赫速度飞行约150米。不过,这对于研究人员全面了解发动机点火和自我维持冲击波推进的全貌已经足够了。

研究人员介绍,与超音速燃烧冲压发动机设计相比,这种新发动机的燃烧室缩短了85%,可以显著减轻飞机的重量并延长飞行距离。

《南华早报》指出,数十年来,高超音速发动机一直依赖氢气或乙烯作为燃料,虽然这些燃料点火迅速,但其存储要求却不切实际。另一方面,RP-3煤油虽然在逻辑上更理想,能量密度更高,但其点火延迟时间过长,使得发动机在飞行中途启动极为困难。

如今,中科院研究团队通过在点火前将燃料-空气混合物预压缩至3800开尔文(约合3527摄氏度),引入一个小凸块以产生局部“热点”来触发链式反应,并使用翼形支柱加速燃料分散,从而规避了这一难题。

报道提到,这一科研项目是中国一项雄心勃勃的计划的一部分,该计划旨在到2030年建造一架能够在一小时内抵达全球任何地方的飞机。这项技术的速度为16马赫,相当于20000公里/小时,或半小时内从上海飞往洛杉矶,将使可重复使用的太空飞机实现大气层和轨道飞行的衔接。

如果将斜爆震发动机应用于军事技术,其将催生新一代高超音速导弹、无人机甚至轰炸机,这些武器将具有超长射程和低运营成本,能使解放军在未来的战争中占据显著优势。

不过,目前在科研中也仍存在着障碍。据科研团队介绍,研究人员需要更深入地了解RP-3煤油在爆炸燃烧过程中及燃烧后的副产品,并需要优化凸起配置,以提高发动机的实际飞行效率。

View attachment 146521
SCMP article would probably be more credible if not illustrated with a photo of the J-36 prototype.
 

Tomboy

New Member
Registered Member
Do we have more
It seems like the WS-10 family just got a tad bit more complicated. Or clarified, depending on how you look at it.

Supposedly, from 齐天的孙猴子 and 寒霜傲雪2021:



Another interesting tidbits I heard. Supposedly the following engine variants do exist and are for the J-20:



It is unclear that if they J-20 would even use them at all other than for prototyping purposes, but they apparently do exist.

Here, I would also like to clear up a misconception. I was partially wrong. Just because the nozzles on a Sino-Flanker is relatively longer do not mean that they're 100% AL-31Fs. WS-10s can be installed in a fashion where the nozzles will extend further than the tails, see a graphic Deino made:

View attachment 135213

WS-10s can have nozzle lengths that protrudes beyond the horizontal stabs, similar to the AL-31. But that's not every airframe. Therefore, a long nozzle isn't necessarily AL-31Fs, they could be WS-10s. However, all nozzles that do not protrude beyond the tails are WS-10s, not AL-31s.
Is there any more information on this mythical WS-10CXX, if these are the engine on the new J-20As then are WS-15 of the similar size as this new engine? Since people are saying J-20A are meant to fit the larger WS-15 and also any update on the actual status of WS-15?
 
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