Chinese Engine Development

BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
chinois49 said:
$6500 for 40kg of thrust is not expensive to re-engine a Shaed 136.
The question that kills: how many units produced per month?
consumption of 60l per hour!
Cheap.jpg
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I suppose 90% throttle means a thrust of 36 kg. The consumption of a liter of kerosene corresponds to a consumption of 13.3 grams per second. This means a specific fuel consumption of 37 g/kN/s. It is competitive with internationally leading models indeed.
 
ficker22

ficker22

Senior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
I suppose 90% throttle means a thrust of 36 kg. The consumption of a liter of kerosene corresponds to a consumption of 13.3 grams per second. This means a specific fuel consumption of 37 g/kN/s. It is competitive with internationally leading models indeed.
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Do small Turbofans/Propfans make sense? By increasing the Bypass air and increase of fan diameter, one could achieve sub 30-25 g/kN/s and for a Shaheed type application the increase in fan diameter shouldn't be a problem, since the propeller on the ice engined variant is quite large already.
 
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BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
ficker22 said:
Do small Turbofans/Propfans make sense? By increasing the Bypass air and increase of fan diameter, one could achieve sub 30-25 g/kN/s and for a Shaheed type application the increase in fan diameter shouldn't be a problem, since the propeller on the ice engined variant is quite large already.
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I am not sure about Shahed-size class but the US has used turbofans for its longer range missiles since the 1980s. The Williams F107 is a two-spool turbofan. It achieves 19 g/kN/s.
 
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Red tsunami

Junior Member
Registered Member
A guest who visited AECC CAE and had close contact with CJ-1000 and CJ-2000 participated in the latest chahuahui. According to him

1. The difference between CJ-1000AX and CJ-1000A:
From the appearance, AX is slightly larger than A. The AX is more like a validation engine for accumulating experience and cultivating a team, while the A, which is undergoing flight tests on Y-20, is the true prototype.

2. The nacelle of CJ-1000 was developed by AECC CAE.

3. It is expected that the test flight of CJ-1000 version C919 will begin in 2027 or 2028.

4. The reasonable time to obtain CJ-1000 airworthiness certificate is around 2030.

5. Compared to CJ-1000, CJ-2000 has a relatively faster progress. The overall progress of CJ-2000 is 3 to 4 years slower than CJ-1000.

6. The CJ-2000 is currently in the stage of validation machine(CJ-2000AX), and CJ-2000A has basically taken shape. The first prototype (CJ-2000A) will be launched this year.

7. The casings and fan blades of CJ-1000 and CJ-2000 both use a large amount of composite materials.

8. AECC CAE showed the visitors the composite material fan blades and described them as "resin soaked and pressed as a whole". The fan blades have a texture similar to beeswax. The leading edge of the blade is wrapped with metal. It should be titanium alloy. Composite material fan blades belong to the second generation, and AECC CAE also showed the first generation of titanium alloy hollow blades. They stated that this blade is slightly heavier than composite material blade.

9. The exhibition board of AECC CAE shows that compared to LEAP-1C, CJ-1000A has slightly higher fuel consumption but lower noise.

10. Due to its latecomer advantage, some of the experimental facilities and conditions of AECC CAE are very advanced. AECC CAE is currently in the construction stage and attaches great importance to the construction of laboratories and other related facilities. It has multiple engine test rooms, the largest of which is 14×14m.

11. C919 has a CXF version, which is 100% domestic version, and the implementation timeline is 2027. This is more like using it to achieve some kind of political deterrence.

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OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Red tsunami said:
A guest who visited AECC CAE and had close contact with CJ-1000 and CJ-2000 participated in the latest chahuahui. According to him

1. The difference between CJ-1000AX and CJ-1000A:
From the appearance, AX is slightly larger than A. The AX is more like a validation engine for accumulating experience and cultivating a team, while the A, which is undergoing flight tests on Y-20, is the true prototype.

2. The nacelle of CJ-1000 was developed by AECC CAE.

3. It is expected that the test flight of CJ-1000 version C919 will begin in 2027 or 2028.

4. The reasonable time to obtain CJ-1000 airworthiness certificate is around 2030.

5. Compared to CJ-1000, CJ-2000 has a relatively faster progress. The overall progress of CJ-2000 is 3 to 4 years slower than CJ-1000.

6. The CJ-2000 is currently in the stage of validation machine(CJ-2000AX), and CJ-2000A has basically taken shape. The first prototype (CJ-2000A) will be launched this year.

7. The casings and fan blades of CJ-1000 and CJ-2000 both use a large amount of composite materials.

8. AECC CAE showed the visitors the composite material fan blades and described them as "resin soaked and pressed as a whole". The fan blades have a texture similar to beeswax. The leading edge of the blade is wrapped with metal. It should be titanium alloy. Composite material fan blades belong to the second generation, and AECC CAE also showed the first generation of titanium alloy hollow blades. They stated that this blade is slightly heavier than composite material blade.

9. The exhibition board of AECC CAE shows that compared to LEAP-1C, CJ-1000A has slightly higher fuel consumption but lower noise.

10. Due to its latecomer advantage, some of the experimental facilities and conditions of AECC CAE are very advanced. AECC CAE is currently in the construction stage and attaches great importance to the construction of laboratories and other related facilities. It has multiple engine test rooms, the largest of which is 14×14m.

11. The C919 has a CXF version, which is 100% domestic version, and the implementation timeline is 2027. This is more like using it to achieve some kind of political deterrence.

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Also, there's zero chance C929 would be introduced with CJ-2000. The initial engine will likely be GEnx.
 
sunnymaxi

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Red tsunami said:
Yep. But considering that this is China's first commercial high-bypass turbofan, slightly higher fuel consumption is normal. I believe that later stage optimization or its improved version can change this.
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slightly higher fuel consumption but less noise level as compared to LEAP engine.. CJ-1000A will match overall specifications with LEAP. . its huge considering China's first civil high bypass turbofan engine.. exceed all the expectations..

Turbine inlet temperature of CJ-1000A will also be surprise for most of the people.

i have post some exclusive images of AECC shanghai final assembly line.. AECC did a lot work on manufacturing/assembling process. very critical for engine efficiency and service life. Shanghai line is one of the most advanced final assembly line of turbofan engine in the world.

454545.jpg
This is Turbine blades and disk production line of CJ-1000 ENGINE..
 
K

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Red tsunami said:
Yep. But considering that this is China's first commercial high-bypass turbofan, slightly higher fuel consumption is normal. I believe that later stage optimization or its improved version can change this.
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This only means the engine specs haven't changed. The below link is from 2017. It is entirely possible the recent quote is based on the same but old sources. I also remembering an Aviation Week article comparing the number of engineers working for COMAC vs the established Western engine makers at that time. I think COMAC number was only 1/10 and the article rightful questioned how COMAC expects to catch up without much bigger investments in talents and money. I wonder what is the AECC corporate size growth is between 2015 and 2025.

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SHANGHAI—Aero Engine Co. of China (AECC), developing the CJ-1000 turbofan for the Comac C919 airliner, is aiming at what it believes is a specification only slightly inferior to those of rival engines. Thrust-specific fuel consumption in cruise for the initial version of the engine, the CJ-1000A...
 
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