Chinese Engine Development

Well, I doubt the current government would inject the necessary cash.

RR already had a do or die moment with the RB211. At the time the UK government saved the company and thus a significant part of the industry. But the rot can already be seen with the F-35s the UK is buying not having a UK engine. That would likely not have happened in the past. The fact is that RR is the last engine manufacture in Western Europe which can really compete with the US firms in the commercial transportation sector. I doubt the current transportation crisis has helped their prospects either. There is already talk of a possible spin-off or bankruptcy of the GE aviation turbine business.

Deino said:

By the way ... any idea what type of engine under the Il-76LL could be? It looks slimmer than the D30-KP-2 and as such could be an engine for a fighter-sized type? ... maybe the WS-13E, WS-19??? I have no idea.


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or ws-15? We had some rumors suggested as-15 powered j-20 in 2022

gelgoog said:

But like I said the production rate was never that high to begin with. For example the maximum production rate per year of the Il-96 was 3 aircraft in 1994. That is a quad-engine. The maximum production rate of the Tu-204 was 10 aircraft in 2008. That is a dual-engine. Unlike civilian airliners a military transport isn't continuously operating. Plus Russia has its own oil. So fuel consumption is a minor concern and engine cost is a lot more important.

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We digress, but...

It's not like they could not have built more - the sluggish sales of the airframes using it just didn't support a higher rate. After prolonged teething troubles caused by this slow learning curve, the fuel consumption and reliability statistics on the PS-90A are pretty respectable though. It's easy to forget that it is essentially a 1980s engine, so it's no use comparing it to newer engines like the Trent 800 or GE90, let alone the GEnx or something.

Relative to contemporaries of the same thrust class (PW2000, 535-series RB.211) fuel consumption matches the RR and reliability* approaches the P&W. With the PW2000 therefore having better fuel consumption and the RB.211 much better reliability, it is easy to dismiss this as the worst of both worlds, and commercially that is of course what happened. But the point is that it's in the ball park, and that's no mean feat for a manufacturer that was hopelessly outclassed only 10 years before this engine!

* As of 2018, the PS-90A76 fleet leader had spent up to 14000 hours on-wing without removal for maintenance and the high-time PS-90A had accumulated 44000 hours total - that is not too shabby at all! Sure, individual CFM56s regularly double those figures, but that's exceptional even among Western types. Now that Aeroflot has retired its Il-96s these stats will probably plateau though, these were likely the hardest-run PS-90s and flew the longest routes (so they were busily racking up those hours!). Without operating in a commercial airline environment, I doubt the WS-20 will be able to match this kind of performance for a long time, if ever.

gelgoog said:

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Is this guy drunk? ws-10 a copy of al-31? Excuse me, this is BS.

Similar requirements do not mean copy!

If this guy go checking the latest Chemistry/ Material research papers, he will find out that Chinese chemical scientists are now producing the most papers and the most referred to.

And we all know that the "Blade" is really come down to understanding of chemical and material engineering process.

gelgoog said:

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Guess he is Russian and imply that the Chinese RE Al 41 or because they bought German company I though the reverse is true The German is now buying Laser drill from the Chinese to make hole on the turbine blade and they are good.

I don't believe those BS the fact is the investment in money, tireless effort, improving research institution, personnel, Improving the base industry all add up. And at some point they will get the right combination of doping element and base metallurgy to resists the high temperature and resist creep. It is just like cooking you can't be a good cook by reading book you have to do it trial and error many times and if you have talent then at one time you get the right combination of ingredient and technique. Of course you have to get good tool too

Some academic and industry heavyweights have just , which was previously covered here and here. The experts observed the test run of a certain unnamed engine. I wonder if it's the ZF1000A intended for an unmanned combat drone similar to the Loyal Wingman or simply the ZF850 turbojet for the Cloud Shadow...

Also of some interest is the first image below. In the background it shows a project development timeline. For the year 2021 and 2022, it appears to show the ZF1000A turbofan introduction/integration into what appears to be Loyal Wingman-like UCAV.

by78 said:

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Does anyone else find it looks different from other engines?

cfchang said:

Is this guy drunk? ws-10 a copy of al-31? Excuse me, this is BS.

Similar requirements do not mean copy!

If this guy go checking the latest Chemistry/ Material research papers, he will find out that Chinese chemical scientists are now producing the most papers and the most referred to.

And we all know that the "Blade" is really come down to understanding of chemical and material engineering process.

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Precisely. Wishful think to feel good on his part, I guess. China has been investing on this for the last 4 decades. There will be fruits of this investment.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Guess he is Russian and imply that the Chinese RE Al 41 or because they bought German company...

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Actually I think he is Italian.