Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Has WS-15 even entered service yet?
There is only some "ponderings" about a superior engine.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Go to the previous page thought not explicitly said so but the author has alluded progress has been made . The fact that WS10 is now mature and used in large number even in J10 seem to be the proof. They still struggling with WS 15 but that is another level and another mountain to climb seem like they get the prototype working but no production model sofar
Chinese Engine Development
www.sinodefenceforum.com
Here's what I know.
Turbines for power generation.
China can make domestically F class Turbines (recent breakthrough). Dongfang Electric did that. There are other powerful manufacturers of turbines (Gas, Steam etc). Shanghai Electric is well-established.
Summary : 20 years gap in technology for electric generation industrial Gas turbines.
Mitsubishi J class leads with stunning efficiency.
Gas turbines for Marine Application
Mainly through Ukraine Zorya Mashproekt UGT-5000. China fully made it Indigenous and improved upon it to QC-280.
Comparison with Leader -
Few percentage points (3-4% points?) behind in Thermal Efficiency of leading Marine GTs of Rolls Royce in Queen Elizabeth but makes up with stellar power delivery.
Summary : 5-10 years behind? Only due to MT-30 RRoyce. I say it's a solid entry.
Aero-Engines
High Bypass
WS-20. Has started appearing on aircrafts. Don't know the technological level blwhen compared to foreign engines but should be comparable to Cfm engines that came before cfm LEAP.
CJ-1000A. Same level as CFM Leap or designed to compete with it. Product of Globalism and derives many subsystems from Global suppliers.
Summary : So, 20 years gap in technology. But ecosystem lags as there was no established supply chain or processes. So discussing a gap is not relevant.
Low Bypass
WS-10
A success story in the making. Had a troubling start with many issues but now seems to be entering in numbers.
Has many variants with wide ranging thrust figures ( After Burning :120 kN to 150 kN).
WS-15
The non Afterburning thrust or dry thrust of Chinese Engines never breaches the 100 kN ceiling. But WS-15 is an attempt to do that. The only engines that do that outside China are F119 and F135. The in-development Russian engine for Su-57 should also have dry thrust above 100 kN. It's important for supercruise (if weight isn't reduced).
Summary : 20+ years gap with the leading edge player (US).
Just to clarify, when you say 10-20 years gap, it doesn't mean that China will reach tech parity in 10-20 years right? So for example, if the WS-15 becomes fully operational then the gap is essentially fully narrowed right?
No. The gap remains.
Comprehensively speaking what exactly is the gap?
For example - say that US (through GE) is applying CMC in its engines in various places and adopting novel methods to cool it.
China may not be tackling the issues like US. They may use other methods. Some novel, some tried and tested.
Ultimately, we only can judge through specifications. Other numbers like MTBO, cost of production, maximum numbers in service etc are discounted here.
So the lead US has is mammoth. It can't be plugged. But China can catch up in some specification that help it to make aircrafts that can counter US tech. Ultimately, that's what important.
Note:I speak as an amateur. Take it for what it is. As far as I know, we don't have any detailed specifications for Chinese Engines.
The gap will be closed when China successfully delivers an Adaptative/Variable Cycle Engine at the same time as the US does. Those engines are the next big thing and are planned to be introduced on F-35 advanced variants or next generation fighter programs ( PCA, NGAD, etc...).
Does anything have been released through chinese media about studies on such technology ?
Does anything have been released through chinese media about studies on such technology ?
Hi thanks for the info! If I may ask, where do you think China currently stands in terms of engine tech with other major countries/blocs? Are they behind the EU in turbofan, etc?
But US has a definitive advantage as it developed the YF120 30 years ago proving the 20+ year gap. So US has beat China there already.
GE is still on the case.
We may see it for the next gen fighter from US especially because one thing that adaptive Cycle promises is extended range. Extended range will be of great value for operation across the pacific. I'm fairly certain that the next big fighter will have ACycle
I think there are two ways forward. One is the adaptive cycle engines to increase range and perhaps top speed, another is to continue the path which was abandoned in the 1970s with engines like the J58, YJ93, etc and go for Mach 3+ with some sort of combination with a ramjet.