escobar
Brigadier
More here. I wonder what RU thinks of all this
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
The Russians haven't been able to purchase Ukrainian gas turbine engines for several years now. As a result they introduced native production of replacements. Relevant to this, and replacing former gas turbine engines from Motor Sich, are Russian engines like the Klimov VK-2500 helicopter engine (used in the Ka-50/52, Mi-28, Mi-8/17) which replaces the TV3-117, and the Salyut Al-222 turbofan engine (used in the Yak-130). So the Russians replaced most of the military relevant engine production already. Where they are still lacking is in the production of transport and civilian aircraft engines, namely Lotarev's, which were also manufactured at Motor Sich. Those are used in lots of aircraft in Russia including the An-124, Be-200, and other non-combat aircraft. For this Russia has been working on replacing those engines with Aviadvigatel family engines based on the PD-14 core engine design like the PD-32/24.
More relevant I think, like I said before, was China's recent massive order of Al-222 engines from Motor Sich for the JL-10 trainer jet. After this I don't know what will happen to that order. There's also the supposed cooperation of Ukraine with China to manufacture the An-225 in China. That aircraft uses the Motor Sich produced D-18T engine. But like I said Russia also produces the Al-222 engine. So I think Ukraine is basically screwed. This will probably go into an arbitration court and they'll have to cough up the money the Chinese investors pumped into the company one way or another and they will likely lose all outstanding and future contracts.
Would be true if China had immediate alternatives to the engine for the JL-10 trainer and the D-18. The smaller engine is easy but will just take time and the D-18 is another story. Motor Sich potentially could also offer some expertise in the manufacturing part of Chinese high bypass engines. The money issue is still a loss even if MS isn't going to win those contracts for relatively unimportant engine purchases although that might delay the JL-10 program.
by78
General
Oh please, no more Motor Sich affair! This thread has been derailed enough times already.
Why don't you create a separate thread on this in the Members' Club Room if you insist on scratching this itch of yours?
READ THE FORUM AND FOLLOW DIRECTIONS!
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As per @horobeyo/Twitter this seems to be related to the WS-15, but can anyone please provide a translation?!
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
This is just old scuttlebutt. The post itself is from 2019, and the poster is summarizing something we discussed two three years ago about how evidence of 3rd batch WS-15s had implications for when the engine design might be finalized and go into production.
Using Gtranslate ive boldened certain important points -
Last year, two things actually made the progress of Turbofan 15 almost semi-public.
First of all, in the middle of last year, Academician Liu Dayang was finalizing the design.
At that time, I was arguing for a long time in Chaoda whether the fourth-generation engine was a big push or a medium push. Then at the end of the year, the engine was awarded in batch 03, which was happily used as evidence by the National Development Party.
Later, Yankee's official account posted an article specifically for this matter, compares Taihang's R&D process. The 03 batch of Taihang was manufactured in 2001. The two events took place almost half a year apart, but looking back, it is actually a very good process of mutual verification.
Because if the 03 batch is the state of Taihang in 01, the Taihang design was finalized in 2005, which is exactly the same as the 3-5 year interval given by Academician Liu Dayang, so if there are no big surprises or surprises for the turbofan 15, there is a high probability It will start mass production before 2022. This was originally a very scientific problem. In fact, this model is now in the late stage of research and development. The confidentiality is far less strict than that of the previous years.
So, nothing definitive. Just speculation, based on the development path of Taihang, that mass production of WS-15 is certain by 2022.
Last year, two things actually made the progress of Turbofan 15 almost semi-public.
First of all, in the middle of last year, Academician Liu Dayang was finalizing the design.
At that time, I was arguing for a long time in Chaoda whether the fourth-generation engine was a big push or a medium push. Then at the end of the year, the engine was awarded in batch 03, which was happily used as evidence by the National Development Party.
Later, Yankee's official account posted an article specifically for this matter, compares Taihang's R&D process. The 03 batch of Taihang was manufactured in 2001. The two events took place almost half a year apart, but looking back, it is actually a very good process of mutual verification.
Because if the 03 batch is the state of Taihang in 01, the Taihang design was finalized in 2005, which is exactly the same as the 3-5 year interval given by Academician Liu Dayang, so if there are no big surprises or surprises for the turbofan 15, there is a high probability It will start mass production before 2022. This was originally a very scientific problem. In fact, this model is now in the late stage of research and development. The confidentiality is far less strict than that of the previous years.
So, nothing definitive. Just speculation, based on the development path of Taihang, that mass production of WS-15 is certain by 2022.
A
That translation is a bit off in a few key important areas. The rough idea of the article is Liu dayang said in publicly engine finalized in 3-5 year so finalization around 2022, mass production 2024
That translation is a bit off in a few key important areas. The rough idea of the article is Liu dayang said in publicly engine finalized in 3-5 year so finalization around 2022, mass production 2024
I’m skeptical they would hit mass production by 2024 when we haven’t seen trial flights of the engine in question. If they can get it to fly with a J-10 prototype by then, it would be a massive win.
Just like the images appearing out of the blue about the WS-20 tested on Y-20, we may get images of WS-15 being tested on J-20 or another platform very late. I don't think we've had a good idea about the development path or deadlines of WS-20.
The point is, maybe it's being already tested. The opinion piece above itself states that design has been fixed. That indeed means flight testing has been conducted, isn't it?