The problem is that the CJ-1000 and other large high-bypass turbofan engines will not be ready until the 2030s, so WS-20 remains the only Chinese domestic options for large platforms.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
I've actually toed the line of anyone who says WS-10 is copied from CFM-56 and whatnot.
But no member who atleast has a certain level of understanding the complex institutional and supply chain resources required to have an engine manufacturing base that works in tandem with an ever evolving military aircraft development system would actually insist that WS-10 is a "copy" of CFM56.
I term anyone who says that, irrespective of their seniority and experience in watching, absolutely clueless.
Loaded, ik.
What more, I believe they are trying to push their own vested agendas. (I'm pushing it here, ik).
I still don't understand how copying an engine works when it is applied to a different aircraft.
What exactly has been copied? The materials? The blade Airfoils (of the LPC, HPC stages), The flame controllers? The FADEC perhaps?
Do remember that the hot section or core of CFM is a GE product. Snecma (the French part of CFM) manufacturers the LP sections. Did they copy the GE tech. How are they pushing the wet thrust of WS-10 series if they simply are copying.
How much is a modern WS-10 a copy of CFM56? What exactly is still a "copy" within the engine.
Or are we all saying it's a copy simply because it's the first Chinese Turbofans to achieve a relative success?
But no member who atleast has a certain level of understanding the complex institutional and supply chain resources required to have an engine manufacturing base that works in tandem with an ever evolving military aircraft development system would actually insist that WS-10 is a "copy" of CFM56.
I term anyone who says that, irrespective of their seniority and experience in watching, absolutely clueless.
Loaded, ik.
What more, I believe they are trying to push their own vested agendas. (I'm pushing it here, ik).
I still don't understand how copying an engine works when it is applied to a different aircraft.
What exactly has been copied? The materials? The blade Airfoils (of the LPC, HPC stages), The flame controllers? The FADEC perhaps?
Do remember that the hot section or core of CFM is a GE product. Snecma (the French part of CFM) manufacturers the LP sections. Did they copy the GE tech. How are they pushing the wet thrust of WS-10 series if they simply are copying.
How much is a modern WS-10 a copy of CFM56? What exactly is still a "copy" within the engine.
Or are we all saying it's a copy simply because it's the first Chinese Turbofans to achieve a relative success?
CJ-1000A isn't a fully Chinese engine.
Simply because just like GE-90 or CFM LEAP, the CJ-1000A sources components from different parts of the world (global supply chain).
Just off the top of my head, I remember once reading that the shaft of the engine CJ-1000A is sourced from a European country (a post about that was made available in the thread few months ago).
Similar to GE and CFM solutions, civilian engine of China is the product of Global supply chain.
The Chineseness of the engine may be limited to the core section of the CJ-1000A and a few other stuff (likely deemed too critical to be sourced from foreign sources).
WS-20 may not be able to, therefore compete with the CJ-1000A in vibrations reduction, Noise reduction, fuel efficiency, reliability, safety, ease of maintenance and repair etc.
Simply because just like GE-90 or CFM LEAP, the CJ-1000A sources components from different parts of the world (global supply chain).
Just off the top of my head, I remember once reading that the shaft of the engine CJ-1000A is sourced from a European country (a post about that was made available in the thread few months ago).
Similar to GE and CFM solutions, civilian engine of China is the product of Global supply chain.
The Chineseness of the engine may be limited to the core section of the CJ-1000A and a few other stuff (likely deemed too critical to be sourced from foreign sources).
WS-20 may not be able to, therefore compete with the CJ-1000A in vibrations reduction, Noise reduction, fuel efficiency, reliability, safety, ease of maintenance and repair etc.
broadsword
Brigadier
Is the CJ-1000 ready-in-2030-time from an official announcement?
With the amount of AEW/EW/ASW Y-9 variants that are being pumped out and a Y-20 tanker variant in the works, I don't think there'd be a need to militarize the C919 anytime soon. In any case a larger airframe along the lines of the CR929 would be a more fitting platform than the C919 to serve as AWACs or tankers. Y-9 and Y-20 variants should bridge the PLA through the 2030s by which time the time CJ-1000s and CR929s should hopefully become available. That is why I don't see a need to fit the WS-20 onto the C919. Just sayin if there were indeed plans to militarize the C919, I'm fairly sure we'd have heard whispers amongst the PLA-watching community by now.
Won't be. They are yet to set up a dedicated engine testing and evaluation system in place to evaluate these engines.
broadsword
Brigadier
Found this
Could be the one among a slew of lengthy test runs.
Surge tests, Water ingestion tests, Debris ingestion tests, Ice ingestion tests...
I think testing will Continue into the final years of 2020s.
Also, the sanctions placed by US on Chinese aviation industry could disrupt the supply chain for CJ-1000A.
broadsword
Brigadier
MTU and Avio are participating in the program. I could not find anything on American companies' involvement. But I agree 2030 is likely.
by78
General
I have some screen captures of a TV report that I cannot locate, so I cannot judge its credibility. Does anyone have a link to the video? The captioning and Weibo poster's summary state the following:
- The titanium-aluminum alloy engine blades developed by the Institute of Metal Research of the Chinese Academy of Sciences will be used in the CJ1000 turbofan destined for C919.
- The blades have passed vibration and fatigue assessments. The performance was satisfactory.
- The blades will next be installed on an actual engine for further testing and assessments.
- The CJ1000 turbofan is making rapid progress.
- R&D for CJ2000 is also being stepped up.
- The titanium-aluminum alloy engine blades developed by the Institute of Metal Research of the Chinese Academy of Sciences will be used in the CJ1000 turbofan destined for C919.
- The blades have passed vibration and fatigue assessments. The performance was satisfactory.
- The blades will next be installed on an actual engine for further testing and assessments.
- The CJ1000 turbofan is making rapid progress.
- R&D for CJ2000 is also being stepped up.