Chinese Economics Thread

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Why China Cannot Win a Trade War Against the USA

Worth reading -- not 100% accurate, but has many critical insights.

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"The essential difference between Chinese capital and that of the US or other rich countries can be characterised as that between non-monopoly and monopoly capital. As seen above, the profitability of companies such as ZTE and Huawei is mediated by their degree of technological capacity. Before looking at how the concept of monopoly versus non-monopoly applies to the international division of labour (below) it is useful to look at how it corresponds to both the profitability of First and Third World corporations and to the income in First and Third World societies.

The characteristic feature of monopoly capital – which is based principally in the rich countries – is higher rates of profit. Non-monopoly, Third World corporations, even very large ones, tend to have far lower rates of profit. These high and low profit rates of the largest corporations also correspond to high and low national per capita income levels in the countries where these companies originate and are based.

The reality of Chinese giant companies – and those of other Third World countries – is that, overwhelmingly, these are domestic monopolies with few if any international operations. While the sheer size of China’s economy means it can sustain a high number of very large companies, the degree of their profitability (at least on average) is mediated by the weak competitive position of Chinese capital within the international division of labour.

What could conceivably happen is that more areas of the labour process that are presently dominated by the imperialist societies and hence subject to monopoly pricing, could be wrested from them and become the domain of Third World production – the same thing that has already happened, for example, in low grade steel production and other industrial processes. The same may be true several years from now for the production of basic automobiles. If the proportion of necessary world labour coming under the control of non-monopoly capitalists increases, or the degree of imperialist technical superiority in high-end labour is reduced (and thereby the degree of imperialist monopoly in these is reduced), then the gap between Third World and First World income could conceivably narrow relatively – even as the overall polarisation remains robust. However, a narrowing gap between the two camps is the opposite result to the overall outcome of neoliberal period (1980–2015) and far from inevitable.

The gap cannot close entirely because it manifests the basic structure of the world market – the development of both monopoly and non-monopoly capital. The social and market polarisation between monopoly and non-monopoly capital, its reflection in the technical polarisation of labour, is the reason income inequalities manifest not as random variations, or on a spectrum, but mostly as two principal poles – rich and poor capitals, rich and poor states, rich and poor societies.

There is no ladder from ordinary to advanced labour accessible to Third World societies – except with the cooperation of imperialist core states. Every Third World society is continuously pulled back into the mundane routine of ordinary labour for the simple reason that this is where their capitalists can make money. There has been no change in that basic social structure of imperialism over the last several decades. Only the technical composition of what constitutes high and low-end labour has evolved in tandem with the general development of the human labour process itself."

Rehash of the usual BS If china cannot win the trade war why US impose all kind of technical embargo to slow down the Chinese technical ascendant? It is too late anyway the genie is out. Just like any industry one after another from steel to solar tech,car,shipping, electronic, to communication Chinese march is unstoppable. There will be difficulty along the way but for the heir of long march nothing is insurmountable
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Rehash of the usual BS If china cannot win the trade war why US impose all kind of technical embargo to slow down the Chinese technical ascendant? It is too late anyway the genie is out. Just like any industry one after another from steel to solar tech,car,shipping, electronic, to communication Chinese march is unstoppable. There will be difficulty along the way but for the heir of long march nothing is insurmountable

gadgetcool5 is on the wrong side of history.... that is not saying America can't win, because I'm sure they got plenty of dirty tricks up their sleeves, but if its merely contained to a Trade War and not involve things like kinetic war, there is no chance the US will win against China, which is why they are considering a hot war in the first place!

" There is no ladder from ordinary to advanced labour accessible to Third World societies – except with the cooperation of imperialist core states. "

What kind of hanjian mentality is this?

But one just has to look at the US actions the last several years, months, weeks or even days... does it even have the appearance of a nation that is confident it will win fair and square? No, its lashing out in desperation is what it looks like, throwing away the "rules based system" that it built, the "free market values" that it esteemed on the way up, to try to contain and reverse the tide of China while the US is on the way down. I predict it won't work.

2020-08-11 20_40_42-America's evil plan to nuke China as the final solution to genocide all 1....png
 
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horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Why China Cannot Win a Trade War Against the USA

Worth reading -- not 100% accurate, but has many critical insights.

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The guy who wrote this, does not understand simple basic capitalistic instincts and is very selective on facts chosen for his article.


1. He differentiates between the rates of return of monopoly capital and non-monopoly capital, which I find ridiculous. No need for that. There is capital, that's it. Furthermore, where did Chinese people in China find all their savings? You know, what is called capital. Capital seeks the highest rates of return, and self-preservation. The worker is irrelevant for the most part.

2. The real problem with this article, it is 10 to 15 years out of date IMHO. The robotics are coming, and the pandemic accelerated that trend. What is described about China, could have been true in the past, but not today.

3. Huawei 5G, the Americans do not have that, the Chinese do. This one point, blows apart his assumption of western technical supremacy. In some areas, China dominates. Keep dreaming. That is the best thing for the Chinese, to ensure the Americans overestimate themselves like they always do.

4. China is the top manufacturing country in the world. It may not have or uses the top of the line of every single industrial process, but to be number one with no challengers and still growing faster than anyone else, that is a dominant market position. Capital flocks to a country like that.

In the news the past couple of days, Qualcomm lobbying hard in Washington DC to continue selling to Huawei. That is what capital does, it goes to where the action is.

Look at this chart and we all know where the action is.

That was one of the basic problem of the article, it was bs, because how can a country growing at 6% have lower rates of return on capital?

The other day, the Fortune 500 list came out, and there are more Chinese companies on it than American companies. One inference of that fact, is that Chinese corporations got capital, but the article is telling us otherwise. People have not turned off their brain.

Remember Clauswizch, the center of gravity, and mass. That article was totally off the mark. He does not know where that is.

:p

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horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Actually, when I think about it just a little more before putting it to bed, as they say, how was China unable to win the trade war against America? What that article said?

Actually I don't know. It seems the article makes an assumption that the imperialist would always find a way to come out on top.

Well, there was a joke in Chinese floating around the internet, maybe a month ago, where Chairman Mao came back to life, and asked fellow comrades, how was it going.

One question was, did we beat back the imperialist? The answer was we are now the imperialist!

Chinese people will find that funny. :D

That One Belt One Road, that is a big project, mostly financed by you know who and their money!

:cool:
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Actually, when I think about it just a little more before putting it to bed, as they say, how was China unable to win the trade war against America? What that article said?

Actually I don't know. It seems the article makes an assumption that the imperialist would always find a way to come out on top.

Well, there was a joke in Chinese floating around the internet, maybe a month ago, where Chairman Mao came back to life, and asked fellow comrades, how was it going.

One question was, did we beat back the imperialist? The answer was we are now the imperialist!

Chinese people will find that funny. :D

That One Belt One Road, that is a big project, mostly financed by you know who and their money!

:cool:

The poster is a troll here and he posted article from last year.

Also no one wins trade wars because of deadweight losses
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Actually, when I think about it just a little more before putting it to bed, as they say, how was China unable to win the trade war against America? What that article said?

Actually I don't know. It seems the article makes an assumption that the imperialist would always find a way to come out on top.

Well, there was a joke in Chinese floating around the internet, maybe a month ago, where Chairman Mao came back to life, and asked fellow comrades, how was it going.

One question was, did we beat back the imperialist? The answer was we are now the imperialist!

Chinese people will find that funny. :D

That One Belt One Road, that is a big project, mostly financed by you know who and their money!

:cool:
Its is strange and funny that the USA is making the assumption that they are somehow the Allied forces against Germany (China) again even though most of there actions are as a whole about as back as the Nazi's back in the day and that the enemy isn't making the same terrible moves that the Nazi's did back then (again, something that the USA is quite responsible for no matter how much they like to say otherwise). They may want to be careful as the downfall of the Nazi's is very much going to happen to the them as they seem to have very much forgotten about history about how over extending too much is going to drain resources (in this case the dollar being printed to the point where hyper inflation may be a possibility) along with becoming so damn racist and hateful in a matter that will make the actual Nazi's proud. The founding fathers are going to be rolling in there graves seeing there nation being exposed for the nation it truly is and that they may end up in the history books as the new Nazi Germany
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Its is strange and funny that the USA is making the assumption that they are somehow the Allied forces against Germany (China) again
Forget about the past, focus on the fight today. The fight between China and America today is total brawl on the economic front, and technology front. If this is 4th generation warfare, then maybe this is what it looks like.

Then there were the consulate war, the journalist war getting kicked out, even the Tik-Tok war, bust a move.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Its is strange and funny that the USA is making the assumption that they are somehow the Allied forces against Germany (China) again
Do not forget about American culture. American strategic culture is based on cowboys and Indians.

Also, just like what President Trump said, that he was the chosen one. What he really means, that America was the chosen one. God is on their side.

Listen at the 26:00 mark of the interview for a minute, to get a better understanding of what Chinese would think about that.

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:cool:
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Forget about the past, focus on the fight today. The fight between China and America today is total brawl on the economic front, and technology front. If this is 4th generation warfare, then maybe this is what it looks like.

Then there were the consulate war, the journalist war getting kicked out, even the Tik-Tok war, bust a move.
True enough, but right now the USA's economy is dead in its tracks due to there mishandling of the pandemic while China's is still toddling along despite the initial setback. In the end, no matter how you see it, the USA isn't in a very good situation at all and if Trump continues to fight China's while ignoring all the problems at home (the unemployment, bankruptcies, pandemic, racism, etc.) in the near future, any further attempts at pissing of China is going to be pointless because by then, the house of cards would have been long burnt down with the occupants inside either being dead or just plan homeless. If the USA amped up the fight before the pandemic struck, they would have a far better chances, but now, the are rapidly losing time.

Also I do find it a bit silly that they claim that God is on there side despite breaking all of the ten commandments and basically crapping on the all the values that Jesus Christ stands for. You could even consider the current crisis in America as evidence of his disapproval and things are not likely to improve for a very long time if they keep committing atrocities while claiming that God are on their side.
 
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