Chinese Economics Thread

[bladerunner]

Thank you so much for sharing you're unbiased cherry picked stories/tidbits on only the most negative aspects of what occurs in China. You are no closer at presenting an overall view of the practices in China than Martian.

Never in my post was I claiming to present a overall view of what I think China's like, but rather a couple of reported aspects that concerned me and that is while the top echelon of management and policy makers are increasingly execellent and professional in their conduct, the same can't be said in the lower echelons of management, and the other being pollution. However Ill be in China again in a couple of weeks, so perhaps I can i will be able to form my own impression.

 

[solarz]

She enlightens us with a long list of enviromental sins, which IM sure most forum members are aware off, however the water one is rather scary with about 50% of Chinas water unsafe to drink and 20% unfit for any purpose what. so ever. This water problem, if nothing else would cause problems for Chinas economic growth -or stability.

On the internet, 74% of all statistics are made up.

Seriously though, what is the definition for water "unsafe to drink"? I'm pretty sure 99% of all water in Canada is "unsafe to drink", since the rivers and lakes it is found in usually contain harmful bacteria like e-coli and salmonella.

And what does "20% unfit for any purpose what so ever" mean? An example would be more helpful.

 

[Martian]

World's Biggest IPO (i.e. Initial Public Offering)

Shanghai: China's financial capital

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"Five Omens for China’s Future
By JOHN FOLEY
Published: July 26, 2010
...
5. Banks broke yet another record: The Agricultural Bank of China pulled off a $19 billion initial public offering in Shanghai and Hong Kong, which if its overallotment option is exercised will be the world’s biggest at $22 billion. That helped China beat another record: it hosted all of the world’s three largest I.P.O. markets by value this year to date, showing the center of gravity for new stocks has shifted decisively east.

The supremacy isn’t quite the real deal. AgBank epitomizes the country’s state-governed, stop-start capital markets. Similar-sized I.P.O.’s will be harder to find. But AgBank and its underwriters doggedly pursued the superlative of “world’s biggest.” In China, big numbers really matter.

Indeed, of all numbers, the most mystically powerful in Beijing might be one. China wants to be the world leader in almost everything. One day that, too, will probably come to pass."

 

[bladerunner]

On the internet, 74% of all statistics are made up.

None of the figures are researched by me, but are "Mcfie's" who is using World Bank and Greenpeace figures.

Seriously though, what is the definition for water "unsafe to drink"? I'm pretty sure 99% of all water in Canada is "unsafe to drink", since the rivers and lakes it is found in usually contain harmful bacteria like e-coli and salmonella.

LOL You are certainly right on that. The funny thing here in NZ, is that According to the Dept of Health, quite a few bottled water of exclusive brands arent any better than restroom tapwater.

And what does "20% unfit for any purpose what so ever" mean? An example would be more helpful.

Unfortunately "McFie" doesn't say.

 

[Martian]

Han Economic Growth for 2010

Singapore: 18.1% in the first half of the year (see

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China: 11.1% in the first half of the year (see

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Taiwan: 5.93% for 2010 (see

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Hong Kong: 4% to 5% for 2010 (see

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[Mcsweeney]

I don't know whether the statistic is true or not, but what they mean by water that "isn't fit for any purpose", is that it's so contaminated it can't even be used for irrigation.

My view on pollution in China is that, yes, it's a serious problem, but the Chinese people have lived through it and will continue to live through it.

 

[ZTZ99]

Never in my post was I claiming to present a overall view of what I think China's like, but rather a couple of reported aspects that concerned me

Never have you ever presented any view on this forum other than "aspects" of China that "concern" you, so don't pretend that you're sometimes more even-handed and objective than you are actually are.

 

[Martian]

Water quality improves on eastern route of China's huge water diversion project

Water treatment plant in Yantai, China

November 21, 2008

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"Water quality improves in eastern route of China's huge water diversion project
20:42, July 05, 2010

The quality of the water in the eastern route of China's massive south-to-north water diversion project has improved in recent years.

The quality of water from 23 out of 36 test places was of grade I, II and III quality according to the latest tests in the first quarter of this year, said Zhang Jiyao, director of the Office of the South-to-North Water Diversion Project Commission (SNWDPC) of the State Council Monday at a conference.

China uses a six-grade classification scheme for water quality. Grade I is the best. Water no worse than grade III can be used for drinking, although sometimes treatment is required. Water worse than grade V cannot be used for irrigation.

The improvement came after seven years of work to improve the water quality along the eastern route of the project, including building more wastewater and garbage treatment plants, said Zhang.

Zhang said construction of all 426 wastewater and garbage treatment projects planned in Shandong and Jiangsu provinces had started, with 399 of them completed.

The South-to-North Water Diversion Project, consisting of eastern, central and western routes, is designed to divert water from the water-rich south of China, mainly the Yangtze, the country's longest river, to the country's arid northern part. It started with construction of the eastern route in 2002.

Up to now, both of the eastern and central routes are already under construction. The western route, meant to replenish the Yellow River with water from the upper reaches of the Yangtze through tunnels in the high mountains of western China, is still at the planning stage.

The eastern route, which extends 1,476 km long and mainly runs through Jiangsu and Shandong on east China's east seaboard, is primarily built on the basis of the existing Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal and other lakes. The efforts to harness pollution has remained arduous in construction of the eastern route because the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal and the lakes to be included for the route have long been seriously polluted.

The eastern route is expected to start service in 2013. By then, water in it should at least meet grade III quality standard, according to the SNWDPC.

Source: Xinhua"

 

[solarz]

I don't know whether the statistic is true or not, but what they mean by water that "isn't fit for any purpose", is that it's so contaminated it can't even be used for irrigation.

My view on pollution in China is that, yes, it's a serious problem, but the Chinese people have lived through it and will continue to live through it.

Still, the 20% statistic is useless without a context. What percentage of water would be "useless" in Canada under this definition? (Think sea water...)

The thing with people talking about China's water problems is that they forget China is not a country with a uniform geography and climate. On the very contrary, China is a bewildering array of different geographical features and climate characteristics.

For example, the North has had water shortage problems since the early dynasties, while you'll be hard-pressed to find anybody who thinks the South has water shortage issues.

 

[Red Moon]

All these cherry picked pilot projects that Martian has posted gives us some indication of what is to come when implemented nationwide, however what Im concerned with , is whats happening downstream involving the the end user

Among the "cherry picked" projects posted by Martian are the ones I referred to specifically.
China has more installed hydropower, and more under construction, than any other country. This year it is becoming the largest wind power market. Installed capacity doubles every year for the last few. One third of the nuclear power plants under construction in the world are being built in China today. And by the end of 2012 China should have more high speed rail than the rest of the world put together (unless the country manages to export so much of it by that date that the projection will change). And the whole world knows about BYD and the big push for alternative energy vehicles. These are not cherry picked examples, and note that I was not referring to "environmental" issues in general, but the matter of Copenhagen and climate change. By contrast, the US, to years into Obama's tenure, is still only "considering" two nuclear plants and a handful of high speed rail lines (with China's help). And frankly, I don't know of any initiatives, other local ones in some areas, which don't depend on the federal government, that have to do with green development.

In terms of production of green technology for export China already has the most competitive technology in most of these fields as well.