Chinese Economics Thread

[Icmer]

I'm sorry, what exactly do you think is so special about the Chinese vaccine recalls?

A previous DPT vaccine was recalled due to ineffectivity, but were otherwise harmless. How is that different from my previous examples of vaccines being recalled due to substandard potency?

The current recall centers around forged data over a rabies vaccine. Clinical data fraud occurs in every country, and it's up to the authorities to catch them, which the Chinese institution did here. Again, what's so special about this incident?

The biggest gripe people have about this is the fact that the Premier came out in 2016 to take a firm stand against such practices and promised a comprehensive reform of regulatory procedures, and yet this has happened again.

 

[Icmer]

Also note that the impotence of the rabies vaccine led to confirmed fatalities, since it is meant to be used in life-threatening situations.

 

[solarz]

Substandard potency /=/ complete impotence, which is what occurred in both the 2016 and 2018 scandals in China. Can you find a similar incident elsewhere? The example you chose was a voluntary recall. I admit that montyp165 found possible examples in Uganda and Indonesia, but the discussion seemed to revolve around comparisons to developed nations.

See? Moving goal posts again.

If a vaccine fails to meet a standard of potency, whether that failure is 30% or 100%, the action taken is the same. What is the significance of the degree of failure? In fact, do you even have any data on the failure rate of that DPT recall, or are you just assuming it was 100% ineffective?

The biggest gripe people have about this is the fact that the Premier came out in 2016 to take a firm stand against such practices and promised a comprehensive reform of regulatory procedures, and yet this has happened again.

So in two years, you expect the Chinese government to completely overhaul the entire pharmaceutical system?

The fact that these two vaccine problems were both caught by the government sounds like a huge improvement in enforcement.

 

[solarz]

Also note that the impotence of the rabies vaccine led to confirmed fatalities, since it is meant to be used in life-threatening situations.

So what? The 2009 H1N1 pandemic led to over 3000 deaths in the US. An ineffective H1N1 vaccine could just as easily lead to life-threatening situations.

 

[Icmer]

See? Moving goal posts again.

If a vaccine fails to meet a standard of potency, whether that failure is 30% or 100%, the action taken is the same. What is the significance of the degree of failure? In fact, do you even have any data on the failure rate of that DPT recall, or are you just assuming it was 100% ineffective?




So in two years, you expect the Chinese government to completely overhaul the entire pharmaceutical system?

The action taken is not always the same. Your own swine flu vaccine link proves this, as it was only a voluntary recall.

 

[Icmer]

So what? The 2009 H1N1 pandemic led to over 3000 deaths in the US. An ineffective H1N1 vaccine could just as easily lead to life-threatening situations.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said on Tuesday AstraZeneca’s MedImmune unit is voluntarily recalling some of its H1N1 swine flu vaccine because it was not as potent as it should be.

Norman Baylor, director of the office of vaccines research and review at the FDA, said the recall involves a total of 4.7 million doses of the company’s nasal spray vaccine, but only about 3,000 of those doses are left in warehouses.

The rest of the doses were given out in October and November, when the vaccine was still at full potency, Baylor told reporters on a conference call.


The FDA said people who had already received the vaccine do not need another dose.

 

[Icmer]

See? Moving goal posts again.

Honestly do you think Chinese people would feel any better that countries like Uganda and Indonesia have also seen similar vaccine scandals in the past? The US, Europe, and the EATs did not have so many issues with vaccine safety at similar respective stages of development.

 

[solarz]

The action taken is not always the same. Your own swine flu vaccine link proves this, as it was only a voluntary recall.

A voluntary recall is still a recall. The difference is that the company itself found the issue. The level of potency is still irrelevant. At most, relevant authorities will recommend people to retake the vaccine.

Honestly do you think Chinese people would feel any better that countries like Uganda and Indonesia have also seen similar vaccine scandals in the past? The US, Europe, and the EATs did not have so many issues with vaccine safety at similar stages of development.

In China, the goal is for phamarceutical companies to reach the same level of safety standards as the US, and the only way to do that is to step up governmental oversight and enforcement. China is not there yet, but the recent incidents indicate progression toward that goal.

 

[Jura The idiot]

not sure if related to the discussion I see in this page, anyway I now read
China strengthens medical sector supervision
Xinhua| 2018-08-03 19:28:46

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The Chinese government has ordered strengthened supervision over the medical sector to better protect the health of the public.

A guideline issued by the State Council, released on Friday, said the scope of supervision should be expanded from medical institutes to the entire medical and health sector. Supervision should cover all areas, using all sorts of measures, including administrative, legal and economic ones, it said.

The guideline stressed that bodies should be identified to enforce the supervision with clearly-defined duties and powers.

It said reform of administrative approvals should be sped up, supervision over the quality of medical services strengthened, the operation of medical institutes monitored, and medical personnel scrutinized.

A credit system for the entire medical sector should be set up and information needs to be made public on a regular basis. A system to detect and analyze risks should be set up, using information technology to forestall major risks.

The guideline emphasized accountability to enforce order to establish an authoritative and effective supervision system.

the discussion in this page reminded me though I'm supposed to get a tetanus shot on the coming Monday LOL! the last one was in 2006, they said

 

[Icmer]

A voluntary recall is still a recall. The difference is that the company itself found the issue. The level of potency is still irrelevant. At most, relevant authorities will recommend people to retake the vaccine.



In China, the goal is for phamarceutical companies to reach the same level of safety standards as the US, and the only way to do that is to step up governmental oversight and enforcement. China is not there yet, but the recent incidents indicate progression toward that goal.

I don't know how you can say that the level of potency is irrelevant if it was the US FDA that made the press release and also recommended that people did not have to retake it. If it was ineffective it would be irresponsible not to force a total recall.