Chinese Economics Thread

[nugroho]

“I understand China’s desire to get into the semiconductor and memory business, I respect that. But let’s try to do it in a way that is economically responsible,” Milligan said in the eastern city of Nanjing. “Because if you want to call it ‘destroying’ an industry, it is not good for anybody. You just need to be careful how you layer in the capacity.”

For me it sound not fair, if China want to get new tech by buying ( That is a real economically responsible ) then it will be blocked ( because politic reason ) , then if China want to struggle by herself, he told to do in economically responsible way.

 

[solarz]

I'm wondering how many of tens of millions of Chinese Communists
(OK a google search:
China Focus: CPC has nearly 89 mln members

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are total hypocrites who just come to mumble several verses from the 1848 Manifesto at a Party meeting to get promotion, raise, etc., and how big is the percentage of believers in the droppings of Marx & Engels?
in the former

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the number of Communistic Party members was ridiculously high (the highest in the Eastern Block): more than ten percent of the entire population! and the number of total hypocrites in between them was huge, eighty (80) percent maybe (they of course quit as soon as they could which was during the first year after the regime has changed; they waited just to be sure "their" system would't come back
on certain occasions, even non-members pretended interest, for example they would attend Lenin's Evening (to commemorate the birthday of the Genius) if organized in a pub, because after one hour or so, a free dinner and booze was served to them LOL!

That's ridiculous.

In any organization, be it political, religious, commercial, or academic, will have its share of pragmatists, idealists, and extremists. Most people will be pragmatists, that is just human nature.

Parties also change over time. The Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln is not the same party that chose Donald Trump as its presidential candidate. Why should the Chinese Communist Party be stuck in the 1960's?

 

[taxiya]

I'm wondering how many of tens of millions of Chinese Communists
(OK a google search:
China Focus: CPC has nearly 89 mln members

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Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

are total hypocrites who just come to mumble several verses from the 1848 Manifesto at a Party meeting to get promotion, raise, etc., and how big is the percentage of believers in the droppings of Marx & Engels?
in the former

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the number of Communistic Party members was ridiculously high (the highest in the Eastern Block): more than ten percent of the entire population! and the number of total hypocrites in between them was huge, eighty (80) percent maybe (they of course quit as soon as they could which was during the first year after the regime has changed; they waited just to be sure "their" system would't come back
on certain occasions, even non-members pretended interest, for example they would attend Lenin's Evening (to commemorate the birthday of the Genius) if organized in a pub, because after one hour or so, a free dinner and booze was served to them LOL!

no more than the hypocrites in the west and post-communist Czech? How many of these guys really care for human's basic right of not being bombed to death or starve to death when they hang "human right" on their lips?

Don't see things and people through the lens of orthodoxy or fundamentalists. The idea like communism and democracy are similar like religion, it is a vision, not ab absolute doctrine carved on rock. Serving it in a country does not mean everyone is expected to act like a monk or fanatic. Not acting like a political fanatic does not equate to a hypocrite. On the other hand, taking that position is a bit fanatical, I am afraid.

 

[antiterror13]

And you are not alone in thinking so. Most people in Europe (99% who have crossed my way) would imagine like you, the more east (in Europe) one travels the more prevalent the imagination is. My personal experience.

In reality, I think China in terms state running, is more like the rest east Asian neighbors than Soviet block if you remove the communist façade. Communism is really just a façade yesterday and today, east Asian communist practice is very different from European counter parts.

"Communism" is like allergic word in Western countries .... in reality more and more countries in EU are adopting the concept without realising it ....... Actually I can say bravely that EU (and NZ) are more "communist/socialist" than China ...

"Communism" is hated because of the USSR and the cold war and is associated with dictatorship, military, corrupt and all other bad tings ... and also of course the media.

Previous Green party leader in NZ was a communist ... and I believe he still embraces the concept .. he is the director of Green peace in NZ ... his name is Russell Norman

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[Franklin]

I'm wondering how many of tens of millions of Chinese Communists
(OK a google search:
China Focus: CPC has nearly 89 mln members

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

are total hypocrites who just come to mumble several verses from the 1848 Manifesto at a Party meeting to get promotion, raise, etc., and how big is the percentage of believers in the droppings of Marx & Engels?
in the former

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the number of Communistic Party members was ridiculously high (the highest in the Eastern Block): more than ten percent of the entire population! and the number of total hypocrites in between them was huge, eighty (80) percent maybe (they of course quit as soon as they could which was during the first year after the regime has changed; they waited just to be sure "their" system would't come back
on certain occasions, even non-members pretended interest, for example they would attend Lenin's Evening (to commemorate the birthday of the Genius) if organized in a pub, because after one hour or so, a free dinner and booze was served to them LOL!

I understand where Jura is coming from. He is probably old enough to remember the Czechoslovak Communist period which was no fun. So he equates Communism in China with what he knows from his own experience or that of his family in Czechoslovakia. Which is quite natural.

I suppose Jura isn't part of this group of people.

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[taxiya]

"Communism" is like allergic word in Western countries .... in reality more and more countries in EU are adopting the concept without realising it ....... Actually I can say bravely that EU (and NZ) are more "communist/socialist" than China ...

"Communism" is hated because of the USSR and the cold war and is associated with dictatorship, military, corrupt and all other bad tings ... and also of course the media.

Previous Green party leader in NZ was a communist ... and I believe he still embraces the concept .. he is the director of Green peace in NZ ... his name is Russell Norman

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Allergic a word to describe it. It is a taboo. It is about political correctness.

Communism is especially hated and hysterically defamed in the ex-soviet block, abound evidence from my comparison of talking to people from certain former eastern block countries with people from the west. The reason is simple, people had bad experience from their past and more importantly, people do not want to admit they made a bad choice in that their life become worse after the fall of communism in the past decades. While in the west, people are more of a third person position, therefor less hysterical but pragmatic towards how to see communism.

NZ is not alone, Social democrats in western Europe essentially have implemented many measures that Communists in the ex-soviet block did without the dictatorial measures. And many communist parties (and left parties without the word) are big parties. While we don't see that in ex-soviet block countries, that tells the hysterical hatred.

 

[taxiya]

I understand where Jura is coming from. He is probably old enough to remember the Czechoslovak Communist period which was no fun. So he equates Communism in China with what he knows from his own experience or that of his family in Czechoslovakia. Which is quite natural.

I suppose Jura isn't part of this group of people.

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I hope Jura does not call the 33% Czechs being hypocrite even though his camp is the bigger camp at 46%.

Also, old or young, Jura must have some relatives being a communist party members back then, as majority of good performing professionals in a communist country would be a party member, would Jura call his relatives hypocrites?

Giving a chance, these 33% would be happily working for a communist Czech, many of them would be joining the party. Calling these big chunk of Czech people Hypocrite would be an insult to his own compatriots just like claiming the 90% Czech party members in the old time hypocrites.

 

[PanAsian]

I understand where Jura is coming from. He is probably old enough to remember the Czechoslovak Communist period which was no fun. So he equates Communism in China with what he knows from his own experience or that of his family in Czechoslovakia. Which is quite natural.

I suppose Jura isn't part of this group of people.

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Natural but inaccurate.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Communism is just a code word. It's anything bad is communism. Most people don't know what it means. When I was in college I knew some students who were so-called Young Republicans. They believed the Republican Party should be the only party and they should control everything. That ain't democracy and capitalism. That's what communism does. There's some celebrity media personality that got famous from one of those MTV reality shows. This was when the internet started to rise and I remember this guy was a self-proclaimed patriot and he called the internet, "dot-communism."

TPP is all about stopping China from using its consumer market to get things from countries that want to sell to China. Something the US has been gladly exercising for a hundred years. All of the sudden when free market capitalism doesn't work only to their advantage, they want to change the rules. So are they truly free market capitalists anymore?

If China turn democratic, China would still be called communist. It's just a code word for people to automatically hate. And you know when China would not be called communist anymore? It's when the Chinese sign their soul away to the Devil. So get use to it.

They're not going to give kudos to China on anything. To do so would suggest there's another way of doing things from how they do it. I've argued that China should always go at everything believing no one is going to help China to do it. They should do it without them. Wanting acceptance or partnership from the West in anything even the most superficial... China is never going to get what it wants. Take a look at recent news. Anything China does on its own sounds alarm bells in the West. That's a sign it's a good thing. Anything China accomplishes that angers others where it wouldn't a problem if they did it, China should be doing it all because it's all the good stuff.

All the talk of innovation coming out of China and how China is breaking down walls of dependence... another milestone has been reached where other countries are in fear that China won't need them. Even today I'm reading articles how Mao was bad for China. Yeah he was bad but better than you. Do you think if China went along and not fought, China wouldn't be a beggar state today? How did China build a fifth generation fighter before Japan and South Korea? China would not have a fifth generation fighter program if they just went along like Japan and South Korea who know their place.

China is doing better than Czechoslovakia. Hence why after the break-up of the Soviet Union, Eastern European countries resented China for doing well while they were having a hard time. That's all you need to know to why the Czechs would even care about hating "communism" in China. Turn the logic around and the Czechs side with China's colonial oppressors. Therefore I give you permission to hate the Czechs even though the Czechs had no part in colonial occupying China. I remember when the Ukraine situation came up and was discussed feverishly in here, some called for a ban in this site on any news source that didn't follow the Western position. I don't see a difference from how the communists do it. As always the people who hide behind freedom are the first to deny it from others. Calling whatever "communist" is just to get people to automatically hate and stay away from it. That's why everything they don't like is communist.

 

[Blitzo]

I feel like the thread has been substantially derailed, even though I do agree with some sentiments that other members have said.

I think we should all rein it in a little.