Chinese Economics Thread

[solarz]

No its not. Even computer can write poetry now

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You should read your own article more carefully. The AI is going through language exercises. It is not creating poetry, despite the click-bait title.

Lang Lang is one out of a billion. Majority of Chinese parents still push their kids to major in STEMS or professional degrees.

Lang Lang is currently the best pianist in the world, but he is far from the only Chinese musician. You don't produce "the best" by having a small selection pool.

Show me where China actually invented cold fusion. Seriously I want to know.
And did it work? If China indeed make sustainable confusion work, that would be ground breaking and I would have heard about it here wouldn't I? Even the idea of Cold Fusion is not originated from China.

Where did I say China invented cold fusion? I said they achieved breakthroughs in FUSION research!

Now about the supercomputer, sounds like you don't understand what supercomputers are nowadays. They are massive parallel computing nodes, and China just happen know invest a lot by putting more chips into them. They will soon approach the level that's uneconomical for China to break past that barrier.

Let's see who reach the the Exa-scale computing first. If China use their "proven method" of going large and wide, they are going to fail, or it will be the most expensive supercomputer in history of mankind. The current champ Sunway TaihuLight is already at 10 million cores , to go Exa-scale will potentially require 10 to 15 times that, which willl require 100 to 150 million cores. The power consumption for Sunway TaihuLight is currently 15 megawatt and IF power consumption is scaled linearly (which it surely wouldn't) then it would require 150 -200 megawatt for China to build the next Exa-scale supercomputer. That would require a medium size nuclear power station just to power that up which will add to the tremendous cost.

Again, instead of appealing to the future, how about providing some existing example? Surely if your theory is correct, there should be plenty of examples of "western ingenuity" that outstripped Chinese capabilities within the last couple of decades.

 

[Engineer]

Blah blah blah, "China came a long way", "China went from stone age to modern age in under 40 years", "China is almost caught up"....

That's not seismic shift in science. We are talking about GLOBAL science seismic shift here.
That's just shows how backward China is, and how quickly China is able to catch up by copying the the proven paths that others have done before them.

No, the discussion has NOT not been about global science seismic shift, but on innovation.

This is liken to the same argument of "Did China contributed to the nuclear weapon design in the world by bringing something new" and you answer with "China went from fission device to hydrogen bomb in under 3 years! Quickest in human history!". Both are facts but you are not answering the question.

China KNEW nuclear weapon is a reality, so they went searching for the answer and found it, that's drastically different when not even knowing if it is possible (like US did) and to make it reality.

My point is, China is still at this stage not able to invest in the unknown - it is still adverse to the risk of not following the unbeaten path.

Actually, you questioned the existence of innovations within China, and you got served with examples. Your questions have in fact been answered.

As to fusion bomb, US knew it was a reality as well, because of work from theoretical physicists. China had to independently make the same discoveries US did in working toward a fusion device, so innovation is a must. The fact that China did it in shorter time showed innovation occurred at a more rapid rate in China.

Your following up argument is no different than saying "well, if a guy isn't willing to jump off of a 100-story sky scraper to test if he survives the impact with the ground, he is not innovative." That, of course, has no relation to innovation.

The culture and generations of "go to good school, go to good university, go get good job" is drilled into the chinese psychic meaning majority of chinese are risk adverse, and will stay within the confine of safe, proven path of research.

Funny you should mentioned this. The reason why recent graduates in US are so burdened with student loans today is because they have been told that going to a good school and getting a good degree is the only mean to a good job. The situation you described is thus not unique to China. A bit of psychological projection of yours perhaps?

Sooner or later, when China starts to get upended by other countries that brings disruptive technologies to the field, you will understand what I mean.

My understanding is that US recently got upended by China in supercomputing and ASBM.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I remember seeing on TV some pundit who said because China invented gun powder is why the world lives in fear of nuclear weapons. Isn't that a seismic shift in the world. Doesn't that mean China gets all the credit for nuclear energy and all the science that resulted from it?

In other news, I love how the Obama Administration is changing tactics regarding TPP. Clinton confidante Terry McAuliffe exposed that Clinton was going to flip-flop on TPP after elected. This time instead of the argument for TPP to not let China write the rules, it's now without TPP China will break the rules. Again how will China break the rules of a free trade agreement that China is not a part of? Of course because US politicians see Americans as dumb so TPP which has no rule over China is suppose to keep China in line which is the appeal. Everything they do to try to convince people to accept TPP has nothing to do with TPP.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Blah blah blah, "China came a long way", "China went from stone age to modern age in under 40 years", "China is almost caught up"....

That's not seismic shift in science. We are talking about GLOBAL science seismic shift here.
That's just shows how backward China is, and how quickly China is able to catch up by copying the the proven paths that others have done before them.

This is liken to the same argument of "Did China contributed to the nuclear weapon design in the world by bringing something new" and you answer with "China went from fission device to hydrogen bomb in under 3 years! Quickest in human history!". Both are facts but you are not answering the question. China KNEW nuclear weapon is a reality, so they went searching for the answer and found it, that's drastically different when not even knowing if it is possible (like US did) and to make it reality.

My point is, China is still at this stage not able to invest in the unknown - it is still adverse to the risk of not following the unbeaten path. The culture and generations of "go to good school, go to good university, go get good job" is drilled into the chinese psychic meaning majority of chinese are risk adverse, and will stay within the confine of safe, proven path of research.

Sooner or later, when China starts to get upended by other countries that brings disruptive technologies to the field, you will understand what I mean.

Stop, dude. You're wrong and you won't admit it. First, you very stupidly said that with the amount of scientists China has, if they were comparable in innovative power to American scientists, it should be advancing 4-10x the speed of the US. I pointed to you exactly why that's wrong and why you don't know anything about scientific progress and you ignored that. You then talk about how quickly China catches up by copying proven paths. WOW. I don't understand just how stupid you are or how many times people have to tell you this but before China, there was no proven path to a supercomputer that operated at over 100 PF. China's the first and no one so far is the second. You can't copy what's not there! Before China, no one knew you could build a computer half the size of the Titan with 5x the ability. How many times will you ignore the fact that you can copy to get to number 2 but you must innovate to be number 1, and China is number 1. Maybe you're thinking that that doesn't count because China didn't come up with the first computer; it just made the computer better. (Maybe you think incremental improvements come from copying?) Let me explain to you again why that's stupid and why you don't understand anything about science and innovation. All science is built on the concept of standing on the shoulders of giants (quote from Isaac Newton, a guy who doesn't innovate by your standards LOL). Which means you must first master known technology to build and expand upon it, just like evolving a computer into a supercomputer, a supercomputer into an exascale supercomputer, then an exascale supercomputer into a quantum computer. You don't "innovate" by turning a rock into a supercomputer. Your immature and ignorant line of thought is such that innovation means something from nothing, while in reality, it is making something better from something. That you may even think that the nuclear weapon or nuclear fission were innovations while improving a supercomputer is not shows me that you have no understanding of science, physics, or history. Einstein read all of the physics books out there, studied the findings of others, found new applications for old ideas, combined/expanded upon the ideas of others, etc... to build the atomic bomb while in your mind, you probably think he just sat down and made it up. You know so little about how science and innovation works you need to stop regurgitating the same garbage over and over to other people's responses. If you just can't understand that you can't be number 1 without innovating, then you're just not mentally capable enough to be debating here. (Read that sentence like 80 times until you start to get it.) You're only good for echoing western media.

When China gets upended? I haven't seen that. I haven't seen China become the leader in a technology and then lose it, not yet. I have seen China do that to many other countries; in different areas, like how it upended American dominance in supercomputing. But that's not innovation, right? That's just copying so fast they copied into the future LOLOL

 

[manqiangrexue]

I remember seeing on TV some pundit who said because China invented gun powder is why the world lives in fear of nuclear weapons. Isn't that a seismic shift in the world. Doesn't that mean China gets all the credit for nuclear energy and all the science that resulted from it?

In other news, I love how the Obama Administration is changing tactics regarding TPP. Clinton confidante Terry McAuliffe exposed that Clinton was going to flip-flop on TPP after elected. This time instead of the argument for TPP to not let China write the rules, it's now without TPP China will break the rules. Again how will China break the rules of a free trade agreement that China is not a part of? Of course because US politicians see Americans as dumb so TPP which has no rule over China is suppose to keep China in line which is the appeal. Everything they do to try to convince people to accept TPP has nothing to do with TPP.

Excellent point! According to Ultra, China made the gunpowder so any bombs or missiles after that aren't really innovating cus you're just making a bigger explosion! The next innovative weapon out there will have to suck people into a warp tunnel an send them into a black hole LOL. If you can't do that, you're just copying China.

 

[Engineer]

Now about the supercomputer, sounds like you don't understand what supercomputers are nowadays. They are massive parallel computing nodes, and China just happen know invest a lot by putting more chips into them. They will soon approach the level that's uneconomical for China to break past that barrier.

It also sounds to me like you are the one who doesn't understand how a regular computer works, never mind a supercomputer. Even on your own personal computer, adding more cores does not mean your computer runs faster.

Regardless of how China achieved it, the simple fact is that TaihuLight is currently the fastest supercomputer. Being at the top shows China is innovating quicker than the US in the area of supercomputing.

Let's see who reach the the Exa-scale computing first. If China use their "proven method" of going large and wide, they are going to fail, or it will be the most expensive supercomputer in history of mankind.

"Proven method" of going large and wide... you mean innovation.

The current champ Sunway TaihuLight is already at 10 million cores , to go Exa-scale will potentially require 10 to 15 times that, which willl require 100 to 150 million cores. The power consumption for Sunway TaihuLight is currently 15 megawatt and IF power consumption is scaled linearly (which it surely wouldn't) then it would require 150 -200 megawatt for China to build the next Exa-scale supercomputer. That would require a medium size nuclear power station just to power that up which will add to the tremendous cost.

Powering a computer with a nuclear powerplant... you mean innovation.

You know, not using the word "innovation" in describing China's endeveour does not mean China is not innovating. It just means you possess a salty and pettifog attitude.

 

[taxiya]

No its not. Even computer can write poetry now

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

so you believe computer has emotion and feeling? You know poetry is emotional expression of humans. In any case, computer is only putting words in sentences according to some algorithms which are not emotions.

 

[taxiya]

Another "evidence" of China not innovating?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I like the long name btw. It's short name is C-12/CL-20. An explosive first proposed in China in 1979.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

于永忠于1979年在国际上首先合成出具有笼形结构的单质炸药797＃，验证了笼形高密度材料理论的可行性，并提出把797＃的４个氧原子转化为４个N-NO2,即为后来国际通行的代号CL-20。

Yu Yongzhong (member of the Chinese nuclear program) synthesized explosive 797# in 1979 and proposed to replace the 4 oxygen atoms of 797# with 4 N-NO2 which is the composition of C-12. C-12 is the Chinese designation. CL-20 is the U.S. one.

BTW, I think all these innovation posts belong to the other thread of "scientific development".

 

[AssassinsMace]

Look at how China has so much of a case of "risk aversion" that it developed a time machine to see American and South Korean investors going to Africa to see it was safe for China to invest all those billions into Africa ahead of them.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Ultra]

Stop, dude. You're wrong and you won't admit it. First, you very stupidly said that with the amount of scientists China has, if they were comparable in innovative power to American scientists, it should be advancing 4-10x the speed of the US. I pointed to you exactly why that's wrong and why you don't know anything about scientific progress and you ignored that. You then talk about how quickly China catches up by copying proven paths. WOW. I don't understand just how stupid you are or how many times people have to tell you this but before China, there was no proven path to a supercomputer that operated at over 100 PF. China's the first and no one so far is the second. You can't copy what's not there! Before China, no one knew you could build a computer half the size of the Titan with 5x the ability. How many times will you ignore the fact that you can copy to get to number 2 but you must innovate to be number 1, and China is number 1. Maybe you're thinking that that doesn't count because China didn't come up with the first computer; it just made the computer better. (Maybe you think incremental improvements come from copying?) Let me explain to you again why that's stupid and why you don't understand anything about science and innovation. All science is built on the concept of standing on the shoulders of giants (quote from Isaac Newton, a guy who doesn't innovate by your standards LOL). Which means you must first master known technology to build and expand upon it, just like evolving a computer into a supercomputer, a supercomputer into an exascale supercomputer, then an exascale supercomputer into a quantum computer. You don't "innovate" by turning a rock into a supercomputer. Your immature and ignorant line of thought is such that innovation means something from nothing, while in reality, it is making something better from something. That you may even think that the nuclear weapon or nuclear fission were innovations while improving a supercomputer is not shows me that you have no understanding of science, physics, or history. Einstein read all of the physics books out there, studied the findings of others, found new applications for old ideas, combined/expanded upon the ideas of others, etc... to build the atomic bomb while in your mind, you probably think he just sat down and made it up. You know so little about how science and innovation works you need to stop regurgitating the same garbage over and over to other people's responses. If you just can't understand that you can't be number 1 without innovating, then you're just not mentally capable enough to be debating here. (Read that sentence like 80 times until you start to get it.) You're only good for echoing western media.

When China gets upended? I haven't seen that. I haven't seen China become the leader in a technology and then lose it, not yet. I have seen China do that to many other countries; in different areas, like how it upended American dominance in supercomputing. But that's not innovation, right? That's just copying so fast they copied into the future LOLOL

I never say "nuclear weapon or nuclear fission were innovations while improving a supercomputer is not". I say what China did with their supercomputer is not innovation because they just add more cores! And I predict they will soon hit that a wall they can't break through by just adding even more cores.

Let's settle this score shall we? Let's see what gets to Exa-scale computing FIRST. I will bet it will not be China. The reason why is outline in my previous post, it would take quantum leap for them to get to Exa-scale supercomputing as it will simply become too costly (100-150 million cores, 200MW power requirement) to build or scale up using the current tech which China obviously mastered. Let's see if China can indeed out innovate America in this regard shall we?

If they do, then I stand corrected. If not, then you obviously don't know what you talking about!