Chinese Economics Thread

Blackstone

Brigadier
Could be worse since China is known to doctor figures.
And we can't be sure the reported negatives aren't doctored too. The actual figures could be worse, and even Li Keqiang said he didn't trust all the numbers. Hopefully, the IMF will require China to implement improvement plans and make official data more accurate and transparent as part of joining reserve currency basket. Low global confidence on validity of most official reports from the second largest economy in the world is embarrassing.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
When China was up there at 10% growth, people were saying the same thing. I remember reading China's growth was really 2%-3% at that time according to critics. Why don't they just say 8% if it's all a bunch of manipulation? Before the 2008 financial crisis when they said the US was growing was actually in recession. That's a manipulation. And Wall Street and economists went along with it. And I've always been pointing out that Western figures say the average China can't afford a car that are equal to American prices. Yet somehow China is the largest car market in the world. Western car companies do better than Chinese domestic. So is the Chinese government secretly buying up Western cars making them profits for Western car companies just to manipulate figures? There's also a charge that China inflates box office growth in China just to make it look bigger than it is. Well does that mean that China gives more money to Hollywood than they deserve since they get a share of the profits from their movies that are around 50% of the box office. Last year they would've made over a billion US dollars from China. If China is manipulating figures they should only gotten less than a billion.

Americans see less imports to the US as a good thing. But somehow for China it's a bad thing. Is this the same manipulation like saying China's anti-corruption campaign is bad for China's economy?
 

broadsword

Brigadier
China rail giant wins first overseas deal after merger

(
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) June 10, 2015

FOREIGN201506101059000385972687030.jpg

(File Photo)
CRRC Corp, the rail equipment manufacturing behemoth formed after the merger of CSR and CNR, announced its first overseas deal after the merger through its official Weibo account, China's biggest twitter-like social media platform, on June 8.

Dalian Locomotive and Rolling Stock Company, a subsidiary company of CRRC, received the contract for 112 subway cars of 14 subway trains from the Indian Ministry of Railways on the day.
With a maximum capacity of up to 2,500 people and a maximum speed of 80 km per hour, the first subway train will be delivered at the beginning of 2017.

It will run in Calcutta, the third largest city in India.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Americans see less imports to the US as a good thing. But somehow for China it's a bad thing. Is this the same manipulation like saying China's anti-corruption campaign is bad for China's economy?

It's basically the difference in structure of economy.
PRC is an exporting based economy where various companies import natural resources and various components and manufacturing machinery from abroad, process them to add value and export them to obtain currency. So when import is down it means production of various items are down meaning the economy is down with it.
The US on the other hand is more of a self-sustained economy where it doesn't need to import natural resources to produce value added goods. Their main products of export is agricultural goods and energy related natural resources which is the backbone of any national economy.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
There was just a news story recently where only one fifth of China's exports go to the US. Not the "if the US stop trading with China, it would collapse" majority Americans buy myth. Remember when tensions started with Japan trade plummeted between China and Japan? Japan went into a recession while China didn't feel a thing. More myths about trade busted.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Yeah it's growing now because it dropped. That tends to happen when trade drops that much. I remember the Japanese government was whining that China shouldn't mix politics and economics. China didn't say a thing. Why? Because China is a large customer for Japan unlike the other way around where an estimated 70% of exports from China to Japan were Japanese companies outsourcing to China. Meaning outsourcing is not a big money maker for China. You'd figure if China were so dependent on exports, how come the tops of Forbes richest Chinese list have nothing to do with manufacturing and exporting?
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
I think you are dreaming since I don't know of any recession in Japan in the past few years.
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Asian stocks look set to open flat Tuesday a day after after the Nikkei 225, the leading index of Japanese stocks, hit an eight-year high after Japan edged its way out of recession. However, the world’s third largest economy still faces multiple challenges. Economists had hoped consumer spending would bounce back last quarter in the wake of April’s tax hike, but personal consumption was muted at the end of the year despite a massive drop in energy prices.

Although Japan exited recession at the end of last year, it did so “very unconvincingly,” according to Jonathan Buss, an economist at Oxford Economics. The Japanese government had been expecting domestic spending to come roaring back once the immediate fallout from last April’s tax hike had passed, but what economists are actually seeing in the latest GDP release is a remarkable degree of ongoing weakness in domestic spending. “That’s really what’s preventing the Japanese economy from growing faster than it is,” Buss said.

To combat two decades of deflation and stagnant economic growth, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe launched his three-pronged approach of structural reforms, better known as
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at the start of his first term in 2006-07, which included new monetary, fiscal and structural policies.

After Japan fell into recession in the third quarter of 2014, economists concluded at least one element of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s recovery plan was ill-conceived: increasing the country's consumption tax from 5 percent to 8 percent last April. Economists say the sales tax hike weighed on consumer spending, which accounts for nearly 60 percent of Japan’s economy. Private consumption rose 0.3 percent in the fourth quarter, below economists’ forecasts for a 0.7 percent increase.

However, Japan’s growth last quarter was primarily driven by an increase in exports. The export sector is undoubtedly very important in Japan, accounting for nearly 20 percent of its total economy. A weaker yen also is beginning to have a positive effect on Japan’s export sector as shipments of electrical components used in hardware devices for U.S. multinational companies, such Apple Inc.’s iPhone, were particularly strong last quarter, said Bart van Ark, chief economist and chief strategy officer at The Conference Board.

“In the component sector, of course the low yen is going to help because it makes components cheaper, and that’s good for anyone that’s using Japanese components,” van Ark said.

But it’s difficult to see an upturn in exports being sustained at its current rate over the next few years, largely due to the slowdown in the Chinese economy. “Given that China is now Japan’s joint largest export market alongside the U.S., this is seriously going to weigh on foreign sales,” Buss said.

Global oil prices fell by nearly half of the value from June to the end of last year, which sent gasoline prices falling. Declining oil prices act similar to a tax cut by putting more money back into consumers’ pockets so they will go out and spend the money saved from energy bills, said Buss.

But there are possible risks to Japan’s economy from lower oil prices further down the line. “The main negative impact is on debt dynamics. Basically weak inflation raises the real burden of debt, which is a very serious problem in Japan given high debt levels, both in the public and private sector,” Buss warned.

In terms of outlook, Japan’s export sector is improving, and consumers should gain in the short term from lower oil, while Japan’s fiscal stance shifts to a more neutral direction. But what is really concerning is deflation, which could signal more monetary stimulus from the Bank of Japan in the form of quantitative easing later this year. “Given that the bid to decisively end deflation is really the key element of Abenomics, this is quite worrying because recent developments do threaten to throw this aspect of Abenomics off course,” Buss said.

Economists now expect inflation in Japan to dip back into negative territory in the middle of the year, mainly due to the drop in oil prices, but also slowing wage growth. “Countering a potential slide back into deflation in the near term is really the key challenge for Abenomics,” Buss said.

Japan edged out of recession last quarter after its gross domestic product, the broadest measure of goods and services produced across the economy, grew at an annualized rate of 2.2 percent,
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. Economists had expected Japan’s GDP to expand at a 3.7 seasonally adjusted annual rate in the fourth quarter, according to analysts polled by Thomson Reuters.

“We’re not seeing major consumption effects and I think that’s really pushing us toward the longer-term perspective of if we do see a recovery, how is that going to translate itself into 2015,” said van Ark. “Because of that, we’re still fairly cautious about Japan’s economic growth this year.”
 
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