Chinese Economics Thread

[no_name]

They perpetuate the stereotype of Chinese being materialistic.

What these type of article tries to do, is to insinuate the target as 'soulless'.

How else do you explain the simplistic/predictable arguments?

It is easily to shore attacks on what you see as a mindless entity.

 

[no_name]

What these type of article tries to do, is to insinuate the target as 'soulless'.

And it is easier to do so when they can hide behind the claim of objectivity and detached/rational thinking.

 

[AssassinsMace]

What these type of article tries to do, is to insinuate the target as 'soulless'.

How else do you explain the simplistic/predictable arguments?

It is easily to shore attacks on what you see as a mindless entity.

That's the tradition of dehumanizing the enemy. They do it and there's nothing wrong with it. But if the Chinese do it, wrong has been committed. So it's not the act that's wrong. It all about who commits the act that determines wrong.

And these are the people who cry about "blood diamonds." Trade in blood diamonds and you're contributing to the problem. But somehow they disassociate themselves when they trade in luxury goods with criminals.

Every criminal enterprise contributes to economic activity.

 

[ABC78]

Towns in the American Midwest, hit hard by years of economic decline, are getting a much-needed boost from China. Chinese companies are now spending big money.

PLEASE DISREGARD THIS VIDEO'S TITLE IT IS ABOUT CHINESE INVESTMENT IN THE U.S. THE ORIGINAL CLIP HAD REGIONAL RESTRICTIONS

[video=youtube;HdagXQG29I4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdagXQG29I4[/video]

 

[Franklin]

Hydraulic fracking in the US is seen as a deus ex machina for its economic problems. On the other hand hydraulic fracking in China is being seen as a risk. I wonder why the media is not conveying the same concerns about the environmental effect of hydraulic fracking in the US ? Unfortunately hydraulic fracking is not only spreading into China but possibly also here in Europe as well. Personally i think that hydraulic fracking is a dud. There are two problems with hydraulic fracking. The first one is environmental and the pollution of groundwater. And its also known that hydraulic fracking is causing droughts in parts of the US like in west Texas for example. This is simply because of the amount of water they use. The second problem is on the business side of things. Most of these fracking companies are low on profit but high on credits. In the state of Wyoming in the US thousands of fracking rigs lay abandoned by their owners because they have gone bankrupt. A lot of these fracking operations use more energy then they can get out of the ground. The fracking technology is not new and have existed for decades. But it was only about in 2008 that the fracking industry took flight. Why ? Because in august of 2007 the financial crisis broke out and in the next 16 months the interest rate in the US dropped from 5,25% to just 0,25%. This is the cheap money that has helped to fuel the fracking boom. Once interest rates rise a lot of these fracking companies will face ruins. Its the same with the dotcom companies and the housing bubble of decades before. People take on too much debt and don't have the income to pay it off when interest rate rises or in the case of the dotcom stocks people just lost faith in these companies to ever make the kind of money to justify their stock pricing. And once again the media is cheerleading this instead of warning people about the potential dangers. I hope that China and Europe would get out of this foolishness fast before too much damage is done. And that goes for the US as well.

China Takes On Big Risks in Its Push for Shale Gas

China’s largest energy company has made the country’s first commercially viable shale gas discovery, but the path to energy independence is fraught with risks, as one town has seen first-hand.

China — Residents of this isolated mountain valley of terraced cornfields were just going to sleep last April when they were jolted by an enormous roar, followed by a tower of flames. A shock wave rolled across the valley, rattling windows in farmhouses and village shops, and a mysterious, pungent gas swiftly pervaded homes.

“It was so scary — everyone who had a car fled the village and the rest of us without cars just stayed and waited to die,” said Zhang Mengsu, a hardware store owner.

All too quickly, residents realized the source of the midnight fireball: a shale gas drilling rig in their tiny rural hamlet.

This verdant valley represents the latest frontier in the worldwide hunt for shale gas retrievable by the technology of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. It is a drilling boom that has upended the energy industry and spurred billions of dollars of investment.

Like the United States and Europe, China wants to wean itself from its dependence on energy imports — and in Jiaoshizhen, the Chinese energy giant Sinopec says it has made the country’s first commercially viable shale gas discovery. Its efforts could also help address another urgent issue, as Beijing looks to curb an overwhelming reliance on coal that has blackened skies and made China the largest contributor to global warming.

But the path to energy independence and a cleaner fossil fuel is fraught with potential pitfalls. Threats to workplace safety, public health and the environment all loom large in the shale gas debate — and the question is whether those short-term risks threaten to undermine China’s long-term goal.

The energy industry around the world has faced criticism about the economic viability of vast shale projects and the environmental impact of the fracking process. But interviews with residents of six hamlets here where drilling is being done, as well as with executives and experts in Beijing, the United States and Europe, suggest that China’s search poses even greater challenges.

In China, companies must drill two to three times as deep as in the United States, making the process significantly more expensive, noisier and potentially more dangerous. Chinese energy giants also operate in strict secrecy; they rarely engage with local communities, and accidents claim a high death toll.

The still-disputed incident in Jiaoshizhen has raised serious concerns among its residents.

Villagers said that employees at the time told them that eight workers died when the rig exploded that night. Sinopec officials and village leaders then ordered residents not to discuss the event, according to the villagers. Now villagers complain of fouled streams and polluted fields.

“There was a huge ball of fire,” said Liu Jiazhen, a mustard greens farmer with three children who lives a five-minute walk from the site. “The managers here all raced for their lives up the hill.”

Ms. Liu said that the flames rose higher than the pines on a nearby ridge, covering the steel frame of the rig, which is nearly 100 feet high. The flames burned for hours, she said.

Sinopec describes the incident as a controlled flaring of gas and denies that anybody died. While the company would not speak in detail about its shale projects, Sinopec said it ran its operations safely and without harm to the environment.

Li Chunguang, the president of Sinopec, said in an interview in late March that nothing had gone wrong in Jiaoshizhen. “There is no basis for this,” he said.

Feeder pipes connect some of the dozen or so drilling sites, and 100 more wells are planned. Bright blue, boxy equipment for gas compression is being installed on large, flat lots next to at least two of the drilling rigs. A two-lane road has been paved across a mountain pass from Fuling, the nearest city, to help carry the 1,100 truckloads of steel, cement and other supplies needed for each well.

The valley has been so isolated for centuries that residents of its 16 hamlets still speak a dialect that is distinct even from Fuling, 13 miles away. Jiaoshizhen had only two-story concrete buildings and single-story mud brick farmhouses last August; Sinopec workers lived in trailers while managers rented the upstairs of concrete homes. On a visit six months later, at least 20 tower cranes were erecting high-rises.

The gas field in Jiaoshizhen “is the closest we have in China to a breakthrough project,” said Gavin Thompson, the head of Asia and Pacific gas and power research at Wood Mackenzie, one of the largest energy consulting companies. He noted, however, that Sinopec was providing few details and that he, like most Western experts, had not been able to visit the valley.

Chris Faulkner, the chief executive and president of Breitling Energy, a Dallas company that has advised Sinopec on its drilling in western China for four years, said that the energy giants’ reluctance to have open discussions about health, safety and environmental issues might prompt communities to fear the worst.

“If they think that they’re going to go out and drill 1,000 wells, and no one is going to Google ‘fracking,’ they’re fools,” he said, adding that even in China, “the days of ‘shut up and be quiet’ are gone.”

The Chinese energy giants have plenty of money to fund their efforts. Sinopec has one million employees and is the world’s fourth-largest company by revenue after Royal Dutch Shell, Walmart and Exxon Mobil; the fifth-largest is China National Petroleum. With their deep pockets, the companies have been investing heavily in North American shale businesses; Sinopec paid $2.2 billion in 2012 for a 30 percent stake in Devon Energy’s shale gas and oil operations in the United States.

In China, workplace safety is a significant concern. Thousands die each year in coal mines, according to government statistics that have prompted a successful national crackdown over the last decade.

Scant information is publicly available about the safety and environmental records of the politically powerful, mostly state-owned oil and gas industry. But Sinopec has acknowledged two deadly accidents in the last year, albeit not related to fracking. An oil pipeline explosion in Qingdao killed 62 and injured 136, and a cooking gas explosion in Dongguan killed one.

In Jiaoshizhen, after the blast, worries linger about the impact on the residents’ health and their fields.

Villagers said in interviews in August and February that the fast-spreading gas they encountered last year had been foul-smelling. Sinopec said that it had done air tests and not found any toxic pollution, although it declined to identify the gas.

The gas evoked particular fear here because drilling by China National Petroleum in 2003 about 120 miles to the northeast released toxic gases that killed 243 people and sickened thousands. That accident involved conventional gas exploration, however, not fracking.

Residents here also worry about diesel runoff from the drilling sites, tainting local streams and at least one shallow well. The drilling “makes so much noise and the water that comes down the mountain has become so much dirtier to drink; now it smells of diesel,” said Tian Shiao Yung, a farmer.

Sinopec said that it temporarily provided drinking water to residents after drilling foam surfaced in a nearby cave last spring, and it changed its drilling practice. The company said that subsequent tests had shown the local water to be “drinkable.”

Despite her complaints, Ms. Tian, like every other resident interviewed, welcomed the drilling for one reason: money.

Sinopec rents land from farmers for 9,000 renminbi, or $1,475, per acre each year. Farmers earn that much money from growing crops only in the best years, and then after hundreds of hours of labor.

“Farmers don’t mind; now they can buy their rice instead of having to grow it,” Ms. Tian said, adding: “I’m still drinking the water.”

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[Piotr]

Hydraulic fracking in the US is seen as a deus ex machina for its economic problems. On the other hand hydraulic fracking in China is being seen as a risk. I wonder why the media is not conveying the same concerns about the environmental effect of hydraulic fracking in the US ? Unfortunately hydraulic fracking is not only spreading into China but possibly also here in Europe as well. Personally i think that hydraulic fracking is a dud.

I think China will not repeat mistakes the US did. There is already water shortage in northern and central China and hydraulic fracking is very water intensive. For China coal is best (and only) option for near future. In fact China is actively investing in clean coal technologies.

DeTeam Company Ltd has announced a strategic partnership with Dalian Shipbuilding, a subsidiary of state-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corp., to construct the production facilities for the coal upgrading plant in Xilinhaote, Inner Mongolia.
...
The Group said it viewed the coal upgrading industry in China as being a promising sector of investment, due to new Chinese Government policy. While the mainstream solution to air-pollution is the development of alternative energies, the Group said “Considering the production cost and the maturity of technologies, alternative energies are unable to be launched [in China] on a [sufficient] scale in the near future. Clean coal technology (CCT), on the other hand, is a practical way to curb pollution issues in China and coal upgrading technology is one of the key aspects in CCT.”

Source:

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The government said combined heat and power plants will gradually replace decentralized coal-fired boilers in chemical engineering, papermaking, dyeing and tanning industry clusters.

China will quicken construction of desulfurization, denitrification and dedusting facilities in coal-fired plants, steel mills and cement plants, it added.

The plan calls for technological upgrades at refinery businesses to improve the quality of fuel oil, which affects vehicle emissions.

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China has emerged in the past two years as the world’s leading builder of more efficient, less polluting coal power plants, mastering the technology and driving down the cost.

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China has committed heavy investment to improve coal fired power generation. What’s worth noting is, China has officially launched the R&D program of 700℃ ultra supercritical coal-fired power generation technology in 2010, and a ambitious plan has been rolled out to transform conventional power plant into cogeneration units, which provide enormous opportunities for fossile generation industry stakeholders.

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China will eventualy master clean coal technologies, it's only a matter of time. I've recently seen in Poland drilling rig with some Made in China marks on it. In Poland there are many made in China machines: electrical discharge machines, induction heaters, flat-surface grinders, guillotine shears, cnc controled milling machines, injection moulding machines etc. Nearly all injection moulding machines I've seen were made by Haitian (China). Poland used to be more developed than China but I must admit China is more developed now. It's really impresive how fast China is developing.

 

[delft]

Over the years I have seen many reports about the huge amount of new coal fired generating capacity installed in China, often concluding that coal becomes ever more important and that PV and wind power are just side shows. It seems none of the reporters have ever looked for small inefficient coal fired capacity being decommissioned. Does someone have the numbers on decommissioned capacity?

 

[broadsword]

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The takeaway from this article dated July 2009 is that China added more coal plant capacity than was shut down.

an additional 70 gigawatts of power -- roughly equal to the power-generating capacity of France -- each year for the past few years.

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This report also from 2009 mentions the cleaner coal plants installed but

only about 60 percent of the new plants in China are being built using newer technology, and only 50 percent of all plants have the emissions control equipment to remove sulfur compounds, both of which technologies are more expensive. And often those that have the technology don't always switch it on.

On a brighter note,

China has sought to cut costs through economies of scale by building many identical power plants at the same time: now it can cost a third less to build an ultra-supercritical power plant in China than to build a less efficient coal-fired plant in the United States.

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This recent article mentions the challenges to

get coal down to 65 percent of China’s energy mix by the end of this year.

But of course I have to end on an encouraging note with the following recent report

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[delft]

Thank you.
I found the Clean Technica article especially enlightening. China spends 50% more and gets increases of 14 times as much installed wind power, 3.5 times as much installed solar power than the US. I wonder if "efficiency and low carbon tech/services" includes the ( very large ) investments still necessary in the power grids or whether these are left out of these statistics.

I can imagine an urbanized and semi-urbanized area in which the main roads are fitted with antennae in the road itself as now tested in a 14 kilometer bus line in South Korea where energy is delivered from those antennae to the vehicles. These vehicles need batteries or fly wheels to store energy for use of the main roads but their weight and costs can be modest. That would remove a large part of the consumption of liquid fuel in the world and would improve the air quality in such areas very significantly. I can see several further advantages as the antennae guiding the vehicles making unmanned operation easy and cheap.

 

[Franklin]

The biggest change for China's environment will come from its changing economic structure. China is now less and less dependent on large scale low end manufacturing and is now more dependent on higher end manufacturing and services. China for the first time in 2012 had more people working in the services sector then in the manufacturing sector. And the growth of the services sector continues to outpace manufacturing. When the building boom slows down it means there will be less dust in the air from construction activities. It also means that polluting industries like cement and steel production will have to be reduced. Opposite to that is of course the growing wealth in China meaning more cars and home appliances for the people. That will be the new sources for pollution in China.