Chinese Economics Thread

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
How else do you think China made it from competing with UK in size back in 1960 to becaming the world's largest economy today?
That's exactly what I'm talking about. For Chinese politicians, this commercial orientation was very important in turning China into a powerful country, with a large world export market reserve and huge international reserves, but at what cost?

This cost was to the detriment of the entire Chinese society, which could have increased its standard of living even further if it had not followed this mercantilist logic.

In the 80s, I remember very well when the US imported Japanese cars while the US exported the "dollar". In other words, the Americans received automobiles while the Japanese received the dollar. Everyone talked about how disadvantageous this was for the USA, the same type of trade balance argument that there must always be infinite surpluses to accumulate huge international reserves, etc.

A country is competitive because of its ability to export many goods to other countries. However, to do this, there is a trade-off: this country inevitably has to accept promissory notes from foreigners. When a country exports goods, what it receives in return are mere electronic digits recorded in foreign currency -- currently, the dollar. As the dollar is not legal currency in the overwhelming majority of nations around the world, what an exporting country receives, in reality, is a debt bond from the American government. The digital dollars that this country receives as a result of its exports are reinvested in the USA, in the acquisition of American government bonds. In the Central Bank's balance sheet, this acquisition of government securities is recorded as "international reserves".

What actually happens is the following: individuals working in the export business are willing to accept promissory notes, or other types of assets based on electronic digits, in exchange for physical goods. The exporter receives electronic money -- in this case, US dollars -- into his bank account. For him, these dollars have value. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have exported the goods. He can exchange these dollars for his domestic currency (in this case, he sells dollars to his bank, which will credit his current account with national currency) or he can keep these dollars abroad, deposited in a foreign bank. Perhaps he prefers to buy stocks or other foreign assets that are sold in dollars. The point is that this exporter is willing to accept promissory notes -- in this case, digital promises -- in exchange for their real goods. This is the only principle behind exporting.

The USA is the classic example of a country that imports many more goods than it exports. However, the USA is also considered an economic power. Why? Because foreigners are always willing to invest in the country. The problem is that the favorite investment is buying bonds issued by the US Treasury. Although some foreign investors buy these bonds, the overwhelming majority of them are foreign central banks. Foreign central banks buy US government bonds because their respective governments want to keep their national currencies depreciated against the dollar in order to increase exports to the US. In other words, the Chinese government is the real source of that nation's export power, as it is the one who manipulates the foreign exchange market to favor its export industries.

Using state power to subsidize a small percentage of the domestic population (exporters, whose lobby is powerful in any nation in the world) while harming the overwhelming majority of the population (consumers, who have no lobby in any nation in the world) world) is the current norm in every major economy across the globe. And the rhetoric used is also the same: benefiting a few to the detriment of everyone else is something that is done in the name of strengthening the nation.

The argument, as with all government promises, is completely fallacious. China does even worse, devaluing the currency to encourage exports, inhibiting any tariffs or market decline.

What strengthens a country's population is having a predictable currency. This makes investment predictions easier. People's concerns about currency value fluctuations are reduced. But it is impossible to obtain a predictable currency in international terms, as the governments of other countries are continually manipulating their currencies, almost always by expanding the money supply. In other words, all foreign central banks inflate. Therefore, a domestic currency whose supply is constant will continually appreciate in relation to foreign currencies. This means your purchasing power will continually increase. There will be no stable exchange rates between countries.

Given that there are a much larger number of people focused on the domestic market than on exports, a stable currency policy would benefit those people who are more productive, more economically efficient and who better meet the demands of the population. These would be able to obtain a continuous flow of domestic currency. Your cost of living would drop year after year, consistently, because foreign central banks are inflating their respective currencies. The value of those currencies relative to this country's stable currency would continually fall.

Therefore, a stable currency would bring a great benefit to those consumers who live under this standard. And these consumers form the overwhelming majority of consumers in a country. Only a relatively small percentage of a nation's entrepreneurs and workers are in the export sector of the economy. That is why the devaluation of the national currency is a subsidy only for a minority of businesspeople and workers. The vast majority of this nation's residents are harmed. It is forced to pay more for imported goods because of its Central Bank's policy of inflating the money supply in order to keep the national currency devalued compared to other currencies.

By depreciating their own currency, monetary planners are harming the interests of the vast majority of this nation's citizens. The subsidy only benefits a minority. The fact that there are a huge number of people in the majority allows their wealth to be plundered through inflation of the money supply, allowing the export sector to earn above-market revenues when exporting their goods. A minority cannot subsidize a majority. It always has to be the other way around.

Therefore, an economy with a stable currency will benefit the vast majority of its citizens, who will be able to purchase at continually lower prices. This economic truth irritates defenders of mercantilism. They say such a policy is evil. They are convinced that having a Central Bank continually depreciating the currency as a way of subsidizing the export sector is something extremely beneficial for a nation, and that the reduced quantity of goods and services that will be available to domestic consumers (both as a result of smaller imports and the fact that more domestic products are being exported) is something of no importance.

Unfortunately, there are so few people who understand economic logic that this subsidy coercively extracted from a majority to a minority is not seen as a program to transfer wealth from the poorest (common consumers) to the richest (export sector). Whenever a country's government adopts mercantilism -- something that occurs approximately 100% of the time -- it does so knowing that practically no one understands that that policy harms the vast majority of citizens and benefits only a minority who are in the sector. exporter of the economy. What's more, he does so knowing that he will have the resolute support of the media and the uninformed, who believe that a "subsidized export sector strengthens the country's economy."

The world is now adopting competitive monetary depreciation policies. If one country depreciates its currency, the other wants to depreciate it more. "Everything for exporters!" This will severely harm the vast majority of citizens of all nations. It is no coincidence that the standard of living in all major countries has been falling steadily in recent years. They will not be able to enjoy the benefit of having a strong domestic currency, something that would allow them to import more foreign goods. They would be able to purchase whatever goods and services they wanted, at continually declining prices. But since they don't understand economics, they accept (and even applaud) their government's mercantilist policies. They accept that their currency will be depreciated and their standard of living will be reduced. They accept being robbed for the good life of exporters. They like to see their goods being sent to foreigners for nothing (only the exporters keep the promissory notes).

It's unfortunate that most people don't understand economics. For exporters, however, who benefit from this assault on the population's purchasing power, this economic ignorance of their compatriots is a gift. Given that it is impossible to gain something for nothing, what happens is that a small group of exporters gain a lot and, in return, the rest of the masses are left with increasing prices for almost all goods and services in the economy. And he still claps.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
This rant just tells me that you read too many Michael Pettis tweets. China does not primarily produce things for export, a majority of Chinese production is consumed in China, and most of recent Chinese economic growth stems from domestic consumption (82.5% of 2023's economic growth was from consumption growth).

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The most prominent Chinese consumer products and brands achieved a substantial market share in China first before being exported to other countries (like BYD, DJI, Oppo, Xiaomi, Haidilao, Mixue etc). This thesis doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I don't even know who this guy is. I've never heard of him. Furthermore, pay attention to the complete explanation and not just focus on exporting, which in theory only explains part of my concept. I'm not going to keep repeating the same argument here over and over again.
 

Franklin

Captain
I don't know if this is true, let's check.

South Korea:
1995: GDP per capita US$12,500
Growth GDP -
1995: 9.6%
1996. 7.9%
1997: 6.2%
1998: -5.1%
1999 - 11.4%
2000 - 9.6%
2001 - 4.8%
2002 - 7.7%
2003 - 3.1%
2004 - 5.2%
2005 - 4.3%

GDP went from US$566 billion in 1995 to US$934 billion in 2005. GDP per capita went from US$12,500 in 1995 to US$19,400 in 2005. It was a growth of 5.88% in these 11 years when South Korea's GDP per capita had the same level as China today.

Japan:
1985: GDP per capita US$11,800
Growth GDP:
1985: 5.2%
1986: 3.3%
1987: 4.6%
1988: 6.7%
1989: 4.9%
1990: 4.8%

GDP went from US$1.4 trillion in 1985 to US$3.1 trillion in 1990. Note that Japan is a unique case here, because the Plaza Agreement forced Japan to appreciate the yen against the dollar and this strongly explains the considerable increase in GDP as per capita GDP, even though the average growth for the period was 4.9%, with per capita GDP rising from US$11,800 in 1985 to US$25,800 in 1990.

The Japanese case only applies here if the yuan appreciates against the dollar, going from 7.27 yuan for each dollar to a lower exchange rate, for example, if each dollar were 5 yuan, China's GDP would jump from the current US$18 trillion to US$25.2 trillion. This won't happen even if the dollar fell, China would have to devalue the yuan because of the trade policy I mentioned in the previous comment.

Singapore:
1990: GDP per capita - US$11,800
Growth GDP:
1990: 9.8%
1991: 6.7%
1992: 6.6%
1993: 11.5%
1994: 11.1%
1995: 7.2%

With the exception of the 2008 crisis period, Singapore has been growing at a rate above 3% even though it is already an ultra-high income economy. GDP per capita in 1990 was US$11,800 to US$24,900 in 1995, generating an average GDP growth of 8.8% per year.

Note that the three cases apply to small countries, with a few million inhabitants, but they are countries that have left the middle income category while still maintaining high economic growth. The case of China is more interesting because it is a country of continental dimensions with the second largest population in the world, its GDP would grow almost by inertia, but it could have found ways to grow even more depending on what type of trade policy it implemented.
You have to adjust those numbers by inflation. 12000 dollars in 1985, 1990 or 1995 is not the same as 12000 dollars in 2023. Those countries are far more developed than China is now even with a similar income level.

The problem with China is its sheer size on the one hand you have some of the most modern and productive industries and companies in the world in China. On the other hand there are hundreds of millions of people that are very poor and are not benefiting from the new found wealth and industrial prowess of the country.
 

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
A lot of things. That is why they are the largest consumer market on the planet, reaching total personal consumption expenditure worth more than US$18 trillion, while China reaches a value of no more than US$7 trillion. Which translates into a higher standard of living in the US than in China.

The American case is interesting, because it gives us the need for comparison. While in China, the mercantilist logic is followed as the current commercial policy, in the USA they even run a deficit in the trade balance to import consumer goods, which, contrary to what is imagined, increases the population's quality of life and even produces positive results for domestic inflation. In China, even though it is still the second largest importer in the world, there is no possibility of this being followed, because China needs to respond to the export lobby, which is still the commercial tendency of Chinese politicians.

As I already said, this trade policy worked for both exporters and Chinese politicians, as well as for the rest of the world, which appreciated the low value of imported consumer goods.

On the export side, the production of goods and consumption is exported, thus earning in strong currency - the dollar, the government incentive should not be neglected, because this mercantilism allows the government to create a huge trade surplus and accumulate international reserves, but this has a cost, someone always loses from it, the only ones who gain from it are the exporters and the government.a

The group that loses from this is the entire society that does not benefit from these goods produced and exported, that is, think of the trillions that have been produced and exported in all these years by exporting groups, all of this could be returned to the domestic market, which would guarantee a higher standard of living for the population, but this could not be done unless it validated other commercial and monetary policies.

In other words, the idea of “export-led growth” makes no sense. The export-led economy makes no sense, 10 out of 10 developmental economists shout this, when this is far from being a reality. Exports benefit the society that imported those goods, not the population that exported those goods. What generates economic growth is an increase in production. And increases in production require, in addition to investments, increases in labor specialization. Increases in specialization, in turn, require increases in trade.

If, for example, you specialize in the production of bearings, you will only prosper if there are multiple people with whom you can transact business -- not just buyers willing to purchase your bearings, but also multiple sellers willing to supply you with various goods. and services that you can buy with the income acquired from your bearings. It is exactly your consumption of these goods and services that will increase your standard of living. If you produce and sell more and more bearings, but never spend your revenue on consumer goods, then you are simply raising the standard of living of other people (those who are purchasing your bearings), and impoverishing yourself. After all, you work and work and work, but you get nothing in return -- you just accumulate money, which is useless if you never spend it to acquire things that raise your standard of living.

The people of a country can indeed become more prosperous by specializing in the production of goods and services and then exporting them to foreigners. However, this increase in production and exports will make these producers more prosperous only if they spend their income, as consumers, on goods and services that they import from foreigners. A country's standard of living is determined by the abundance of goods and services. The greater the quantity of goods and services offered, and the greater the diversity of this offer, the higher the population's standard of living. Thus, a people who export more in order to import more will become rich and improve their standard of living; Now, a people who export more just to export more and, with that, "improve their trade balance" will reduce their standard of living -- after all, by sending more products out and not bringing more products in, the internal supply of products will fall. Fewer products on the domestic market imply a direct reduction in the standard of living. This is exactly why the USA has a consumer market that is almost three times larger than China, even though China is as large an economy as the USA, which explains the higher standard of living in the USA compared to China.

It is possible to have export-led economic growth, but only if you correctly interpret the meaning of this expression. Economic growth occurs when, and only when, there are increases in the quantity of goods and services available for a country's population to consume. The more able to consume, the richer individuals are. From this we can conclude that greater opportunities to export actually generate real economic advantages. But these advantages will be reduced, or even nullified, if these greater exports do not translate into greater imports.

If we export more and receive, in exchange for these exported products, more imported goods and services that we value as consumer items -- and which we value more than national products -- then we are better off. We "grow" economically. If, however, we increase exports but do not receive more goods and services in return, then our situation has not improved at all. What really matters, therefore, is what we receive (in terms of consumer goods) in exchange for what we produce.

Thus, if the government starts to artificially encourage exports in a totally mercantilist logic, but in no way facilitates imports, then the economic growth that it will be promoting would be the same as if it started to promote the production of "yellow things" or "yellow things" rectangular" (for which there was never a demand). Producing more exports just to export more makes as much sense as producing more yellow or rectangular things just to produce more yellow or rectangular things. Therefore, there is nothing remotely special, or superior, or economically significant about "export-led growth." All growth, ultimately, is driven by production -- but only when what is produced is exchanged for goods and services to be consumed.

If, for example, Henry Ford increased the productivity of his Model T production line -- as he did -- but refused to purchase any goods or services for himself and his company in return, this lower unit cost of production made possible by this large-scale production would have been completely useless to him.

Taking advantage of opportunities to produce on a larger scale will be an advantage if there are economies of scale and if they are driven by market demands and China has this national scale. And a global market in fact has a greater number of opportunities than any national market, however large it may be, but China has fallen far short of leveraging this enormous domestic consumer market. However, it is always crucial to emphasize that any genuine economic growth that may occur through this increase in exports will be because not of what is being exported, but rather of what is being imported.

In an economy, we increase our consumption capacity by producing greater quantities for others to consume -- others who, in return, will provide us with what we want to consume. Thus, each of us "grows" economically by producing more things (measured in terms of value) for our trading partners to consume, because only then will our trading partners give us what we want from them: more things for us to consume. Just as an individual will not prosper if he hands over the fruits of his labor to others in exchange for mere pieces of paper (or electronic digits) that he will never spend, no group of people will prosper if they follow this same unwise strategy.

Exports are costs. They promote economic growth only if, in return, the population of the exporting country receives goods, services and assets that improve their quality of life and their ability to produce. Any country that insists on exporting its production and, in return, importing as little as possible (by adopting import tariffs or even directly restricting various imports) will be on the right path to poverty.

Accumulating money (in this case, foreign currency from exports) can be a strategy that increases prosperity -- but only if that money is spent. If it is never spent, all products sent to other countries in exchange for this money will just be gifts to foreigners. Any people who allow their government to adopt this policy of encouraging exports and restricting imports will only be enriching others and impoverishing themselves.
This suddenly sounded very suspicious.... however, I'm getting sleepy and probably just need to take a break
 

PikeCowboy

Junior Member
A lot of things. That is why they are the largest consumer market on the planet, reaching total personal consumption expenditure worth more than US$18 trillion, while China reaches a value of no more than US$7 trillion. Which translates into a higher standard of living in the US than in China.

The American case is interesting, because it gives us the need for comparison. While in China, the mercantilist logic is followed as the current commercial policy, in the USA they even run a deficit in the trade balance to import consumer goods, which, contrary to what is imagined, increases the population's quality of life and even produces positive results for domestic inflation. In China, even though it is still the second largest importer in the world, there is no possibility of this being followed, because China needs to respond to the export lobby, which is still the commercial tendency of Chinese politicians.

As I already said, this trade policy worked for both exporters and Chinese politicians, as well as for the rest of the world, which appreciated the low value of imported consumer goods.

On the export side, the production of goods and consumption is exported, thus earning in strong currency - the dollar, the government incentive should not be neglected, because this mercantilism allows the government to create a huge trade surplus and accumulate international reserves, but this has a cost, someone always loses from it, the only ones who gain from it are the exporters and the government.a

The group that loses from this is the entire society that does not benefit from these goods produced and exported, that is, think of the trillions that have been produced and exported in all these years by exporting groups, all of this could be returned to the domestic market, which would guarantee a higher standard of living for the population, but this could not be done unless it validated other commercial and monetary policies.

In other words, the idea of “export-led growth” makes no sense. The export-led economy makes no sense, 10 out of 10 developmental economists shout this, when this is far from being a reality. Exports benefit the society that imported those goods, not the population that exported those goods. What generates economic growth is an increase in production. And increases in production require, in addition to investments, increases in labor specialization. Increases in specialization, in turn, require increases in trade.

If, for example, you specialize in the production of bearings, you will only prosper if there are multiple people with whom you can transact business -- not just buyers willing to purchase your bearings, but also multiple sellers willing to supply you with various goods. and services that you can buy with the income acquired from your bearings. It is exactly your consumption of these goods and services that will increase your standard of living. If you produce and sell more and more bearings, but never spend your revenue on consumer goods, then you are simply raising the standard of living of other people (those who are purchasing your bearings), and impoverishing yourself. After all, you work and work and work, but you get nothing in return -- you just accumulate money, which is useless if you never spend it to acquire things that raise your standard of living.

The people of a country can indeed become more prosperous by specializing in the production of goods and services and then exporting them to foreigners. However, this increase in production and exports will make these producers more prosperous only if they spend their income, as consumers, on goods and services that they import from foreigners. A country's standard of living is determined by the abundance of goods and services. The greater the quantity of goods and services offered, and the greater the diversity of this offer, the higher the population's standard of living. Thus, a people who export more in order to import more will become rich and improve their standard of living; Now, a people who export more just to export more and, with that, "improve their trade balance" will reduce their standard of living -- after all, by sending more products out and not bringing more products in, the internal supply of products will fall. Fewer products on the domestic market imply a direct reduction in the standard of living. This is exactly why the USA has a consumer market that is almost three times larger than China, even though China is as large an economy as the USA, which explains the higher standard of living in the USA compared to China.

It is possible to have export-led economic growth, but only if you correctly interpret the meaning of this expression. Economic growth occurs when, and only when, there are increases in the quantity of goods and services available for a country's population to consume. The more able to consume, the richer individuals are. From this we can conclude that greater opportunities to export actually generate real economic advantages. But these advantages will be reduced, or even nullified, if these greater exports do not translate into greater imports.

If we export more and receive, in exchange for these exported products, more imported goods and services that we value as consumer items -- and which we value more than national products -- then we are better off. We "grow" economically. If, however, we increase exports but do not receive more goods and services in return, then our situation has not improved at all. What really matters, therefore, is what we receive (in terms of consumer goods) in exchange for what we produce.

Thus, if the government starts to artificially encourage exports in a totally mercantilist logic, but in no way facilitates imports, then the economic growth that it will be promoting would be the same as if it started to promote the production of "yellow things" or "yellow things" rectangular" (for which there was never a demand). Producing more exports just to export more makes as much sense as producing more yellow or rectangular things just to produce more yellow or rectangular things. Therefore, there is nothing remotely special, or superior, or economically significant about "export-led growth." All growth, ultimately, is driven by production -- but only when what is produced is exchanged for goods and services to be consumed.

If, for example, Henry Ford increased the productivity of his Model T production line -- as he did -- but refused to purchase any goods or services for himself and his company in return, this lower unit cost of production made possible by this large-scale production would have been completely useless to him.

Taking advantage of opportunities to produce on a larger scale will be an advantage if there are economies of scale and if they are driven by market demands and China has this national scale. And a global market in fact has a greater number of opportunities than any national market, however large it may be, but China has fallen far short of leveraging this enormous domestic consumer market. However, it is always crucial to emphasize that any genuine economic growth that may occur through this increase in exports will be because not of what is being exported, but rather of what is being imported.

In an economy, we increase our consumption capacity by producing greater quantities for others to consume -- others who, in return, will provide us with what we want to consume. Thus, each of us "grows" economically by producing more things (measured in terms of value) for our trading partners to consume, because only then will our trading partners give us what we want from them: more things for us to consume. Just as an individual will not prosper if he hands over the fruits of his labor to others in exchange for mere pieces of paper (or electronic digits) that he will never spend, no group of people will prosper if they follow this same unwise strategy.

Exports are costs. They promote economic growth only if, in return, the population of the exporting country receives goods, services and assets that improve their quality of life and their ability to produce. Any country that insists on exporting its production and, in return, importing as little as possible (by adopting import tariffs or even directly restricting various imports) will be on the right path to poverty.

Accumulating money (in this case, foreign currency from exports) can be a strategy that increases prosperity -- but only if that money is spent. If it is never spent, all products sent to other countries in exchange for this money will just be gifts to foreigners. Any people who allow their government to adopt this policy of encouraging exports and restricting imports will only be enriching others and impoverishing themselves.
This is a really long post using theory to argue against observation. The US can run a sustained deficit because it exports USDs. It is the only country that can do this because it essentially was the sole superpower for a while. Other countries cant just ~choose~ to run a net sustained trade deficit.

Also I think the US is the largest consumer market for goods and services by "value," while China has overtaken as the largest retail market for goods. Services cant easily be traded internationally and so prices between countries cant really be compared.
 

Index

Junior Member
Registered Member
Unfortunately, there are so few people who understand economic logic that this subsidy coercively extracted from a majority to a minority is not seen as a program to transfer wealth from the poorest (common consumers) to the richest (export sector). Whenever a country's government adopts mercantilism -- something that occurs approximately 100% of the time -- it does so knowing that practically no one understands that that policy harms the vast majority of citizens and benefits only a minority who are in the sector. exporter of the economy. What's more, he does so knowing that he will have the resolute support of the media and the uninformed, who believe that a "subsidized export sector strengthens the country's economy."

The world is now adopting competitive monetary depreciation policies. If one country depreciates its currency, the other wants to depreciate it more. "Everything for exporters!" This will severely harm the vast majority of citizens of all nations. It is no coincidence that the standard of living in all major countries has been falling steadily in recent years. They will not be able to enjoy the benefit of having a strong domestic currency, something that would allow them to import more foreign goods.
Herein is your misunderstanding. Everyone wants to import foreign goods, but few countries know how to design such goods.
They would be able to purchase whatever goods and services they wanted, at continually declining prices. But since they don't understand economics, they accept (and even applaud) their government's mercantilist policies. They accept that their currency will be depreciated and their standard of living will be reduced. They accept being robbed for the good life of exporters. They like to see their goods being sent to foreigners for nothing (only the exporters keep the promissory notes).

It's unfortunate that most people don't understand economics. For exporters, however, who benefit from this assault on the population's purchasing power, this economic ignorance of their compatriots is a gift. Given that it is impossible to gain something for nothing, what happens is that a small group of exporters gain a lot and, in return, the rest of the masses are left with increasing prices for almost all goods and services in the economy. And he still claps.
As I said, the purpose of grabbing market share is not to import money from aboard nor is it to sell goods which become outdated within a few years at best anyways. It's to improve the country's own manufacturing ability.

China became powerful because when it has 80% market share in something, it means it is innovating and gathering experience several times faster than the rival nations that end up sharing the remaining 20% share.

US propagandists call this "cabbagization", claiming it means China takes formerly expensive items and degoratorily claims China cheapens them for domestic and foreign markets alike, making them as common as cabbages.

People can call this process whatever name they want, but this is the central reason behind China's economic dominance, and it is the ONLY form of societal advancement that matters in the end. Increased productive capability at lower cost.

In the 16th century, a Ming field cannon was an artisan work by expert craftsmen, perhaps approaching the cost of a F-35 in modern terms. Britain cabbagized it with iron casting molds, and the rest is history. Production efficiency and production efficiency alone wins great power competitions. China's success in economics today is built on closely following this principle.
 

Iracundus

New Member
Registered Member
US propagandists call this "cabbagization", claiming it means China takes formerly expensive items and degoratorily claims China cheapens them for domestic and foreign markets alike, making them as common as cabbages.

This is progress towards the future. Mass production allows the average person to afford technological items and allows society to become more advanced as a whole. Without mass production, cars and airplanes would have remained the curiosities and playthings of the super rich, instead of becoming common enough for people to travel around in cars and fly for holidays. The same goes for any good.
 

Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
China is a far less export oriented economy than South Korea is, either today or at any stage in its comparable development. If you're going to use South Korea's numbers, you need to keep that in mind.

Even today, South Korea's exports as a percentage of GDP is an astounding ~40%. By contrast, China's is just ~20%. And China is less than half of South Korea's GDP per capita both nominal and PPP. The US, for comparison, is about ~10%, so China is indeed far closer to the US than it is to South Korea.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
A lot of things. That is why they are the largest consumer market on the planet, reaching total personal consumption expenditure worth more than US$18 trillion, while China reaches a value of no more than US$7 trillion. Which translates into a higher standard of living in the US than in China.

The American case is interesting, because it gives us the need for comparison. While in China, the mercantilist logic is followed as the current commercial policy, in the USA they even run a deficit in the trade balance to import consumer goods, which, contrary to what is imagined, increases the population's quality of life and even produces positive results for domestic inflation. In China, even though it is still the second largest importer in the world, there is no possibility of this being followed, because China needs to respond to the export lobby, which is still the commercial tendency of Chinese politicians.
if you actually read the BEA analysis, here is actual US consumer spending:

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I'll take Q1 2022 as an example, easiest since its just column 1. I will help you read the chart, since it seems like you have trouble doing that. Units: millions USD.

Total spending: 17,030,634

Motor vehicles: 735,274
Food for outside (i.e. home) consumption: 1,353,917
Gasoline: 488,611
Housing: 2,959,089
Healthcare: 2,726,467
Transportation: 527,809
Insurance: 442,399
Education: 309,655

Recreation: 282,962
Food service: 1,154,204


"Fun" stuff is 10% of all consumption. Most US consumption is from high valuations of essentials. No, gasoline and transportation (i.e. motor vehicle services) is not a luxury spending if there's no transit.

This is provable that it is due to high valuation, not high value, when you compare the outcomes:

Life expectancy:

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Age 65 survivorship, male:

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Age 65 survivorship, female:

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Human capital index:

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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
if you actually read the BEA analysis, here is actual US consumer spending:

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I'll take Q1 2022 as an example, easiest since its just column 1. I will help you read the chart, since it seems like you have trouble doing that. Units: millions USD.

Total spending: 17,030,634

Motor vehicles: 735,274
Food for outside (i.e. home) consumption: 1,353,917
Gasoline: 488,611
Housing: 2,959,089
Healthcare: 2,726,467
Transportation: 527,809
Insurance: 442,399
Education: 309,655

Recreation: 282,962
Food service: 1,154,204


"Fun" stuff is 10% of all consumption. Most US consumption is from high valuations of essentials. No, gasoline and transportation (i.e. motor vehicle services) is not a luxury spending if there's no transit.

This is provable that it is due to high valuation, not high value, when you compare the outcomes:

Life expectancy:

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Age 65 survivorship, male:

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Age 65 survivorship, female:

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Human capital index:

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I'm pretty sure he can't be convinced.
 
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