Chinese Economics Thread

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Deleted member 23272

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I don't think India's figure is fake. In this age, no one buys a phone that is not android. Even if its just $100, you can get android phone. And with android you get internet and apps. So, its a no brainer that even beggers have internet these days.

The thing I don't understand is China's low percentage of internet users. Something is wrong with China's internet infrastracture that is making it too expensive or somehow less accessible to the poorest of Chinese.
It probably comes down to age. Nowadays as you said budget smartphones brands are everywhere, so much so that even Sub-Saharan Africans farmers can get them and post memes online. The difference between China and India is simply that China has the older population, who may feel that at their age they have no use for a smartphone anymore while India's is younger so people from the countryside even if they're poor will be in a bigger rush to connect.

Plus if the topic here is GDP per capita, China's internet penetration relative to population is similar to that of Brazil and Mexico's, so there's that.
 

tamsen_ikard

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It probably comes down to age. Nowadays as you said budget smartphones brands are everywhere, so much so that even Sub-Saharan Africans farmers can get them and post memes online. The difference between China and India is simply that China has the older population, who may feel that at their age they have no use for a smartphone anymore while India's is younger so people from the countryside even if they're poor will be in a bigger rush to connect.
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Actually there is a figure here that finally answers the mystery of China's low internet population. And you are exactly correct. China's older popular over 50 have much lower internet penetration. They are the ones that are bringing the percentage down for China.
 
I don't think India's figure is fake. In this age, no one buys a phone that is not android. Even if its just $100, you can get android phone. And with android you get internet and apps. So, its a no brainer that even beggers have internet these days.
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BlackWindMnt

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Actually there is a figure here that finally answers the mystery of China's low internet population. And you are exactly correct. China's older popular over 50 have much lower internet penetration. They are the ones that are bringing the percentage down for China.
Who needs the internet when you can play mahjong with the gang...
 

henrik

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Actually there is a figure here that finally answers the mystery of China's low internet population. And you are exactly correct. China's older popular over 50 have much lower internet penetration. They are the ones that are bringing the percentage down for China.

Nearly all Chinese people order their meals and grocery online for convenience. Then all of them would pay using digital payment. So China's internet population is close to the whole population.
 

tphuang

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That's great. Now, both Japan and SK can continue running trade deficit.
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this is pretty important and one that should be looked at by more people

China has had such an expansion in refineries that the output will continue to push other countries' refineries to cut production or close.

Because China clearly has cheaper crude inputs and lower energy cost. And they are newer, so they have more modern technology and more automation. So everything they produce should be cheapr
 

sunnymaxi

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In 2022, the operating income of
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's electronic information manufacturing industry was RMB 15.4 Trillion, while the software business made RMB 10.8 Trillion and big data industry made RMB 1.57 Trillion.

Image
 

tphuang

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Another hit from HW before HR

中国产业链进步神速,如果市场被中国企业占领了,一般欧美很难抢回去,他们产业链没有了再回来代价很大。中国企业技术在快速升级,占领市场能力可能比大家想的要强,这估计就是日韩外贸不断下跌、对华变为持续逆差,以及俄罗斯没有太多产业链停下来的根源。

最近芬兰总统抱怨芬兰公司都退出俄罗斯了,但是对俄罗斯影响无济于事。刚好7月7日,俄方表示,给俄罗斯制造困难的国家没有取得任何有价值的成果,并表示相信它们将一无所获。两个信息互相验证,本质上是中国企业代替了西方企业。
恰好中国出口俄罗斯市场暴涨。我国和俄罗斯的贸易继续保持强化态势,5月当月的出口金额激增114%。前5个月的出口商品金额上涨75.6%,从俄罗斯进口商品金额上涨20.4%。2023年1-5月中俄贸易额938.06亿美元,同比增长40.7%。今年中俄贸易突破2000亿美元是毫无疑问的。从以前俄罗斯大幅顺差到今年双方贸易比较平衡。根源就是中国接了西方公司在俄罗斯市场的盘。

之前很多俄罗斯企业和消费者,基于品牌心里、售后和消费惯性,加上中国几十年前假冒伪劣低端产品对中国产品的品牌伤害,导致俄罗斯企业与消费者优先购买西方产品。
但是现在俄罗斯已经没有西方产品买,他们买中国产品后发现原来这么好用,物美价廉,那西方产品以后就回不去了。比如汽车和家电大概率如此。后续很多机械也会发现大概如此。

这十年来,中国产品质量进步飞快,和以前真是不可同日而语。首先是材料的进步,比如车用钢、家电用钢、船用钢、机械用钢都大幅度改进。铝也有航空铝、发动机铝等技术大面积使用。这些材料先个别厂突破,然后行业内卷导致大家都跟上,几年间整个行业材料都上一个大台阶。其次是中国的制造工艺也大面积提升,比如各种自动化设备,机器人的使用让产品稳定性和同质化很强。最后是模具与设计能力也提升了。大家可以看现在国产车外观和十年前国产车外观,简直天差地别的。看十年前一些车现在简直开了丢人,太丑了。
日产汽车公司社长内田诚近日说中国汽车竞争力大,“首先,行驶、转弯、刹车的基本性能大幅提高。方向盘很灵活,转弯的时候也不会觉得轻飘飘的。”他表示,“一说到中国车就觉得不过如此”的传统观念已经不适用了。

中国市场的家电、智能手机、汽车,国外公司正在走麦城,被中国企业击败。这些内卷出的王者竞争力很强,比如连出口的大头都已经是国内民营企业了、占52%多了,外资已经占不到1/3。
而被中国击败的产业链,对方的配套设施、工人、技术人员就会慢慢流失,最终形成不了有效产能,比如美国的商用造船业。而类似俄罗斯西方企业走了,以后他们的市场体系、售后体系、配套体系重建就难了。

I think it's quite obvious that China is closing its trade deficit with Russia, because it has replaced Western products in Russian market. In the past, maybe western companies had huge reputation/brand advantage over China. But once Russia tried on Chinese product and found them to be workable and improving rapidly, there is just not a lot of reason for them to turn back to Western products. Even if Western companies come back in 2 years, it would be hard pressed to see them winning back their market share in the Russian market.

And beyond that, he makes a good point that defeated industries losing skilled workers and technicians. Once that's lost, it takes a long time to bring that back, since those people end up in other industries

Now for me, the question is that while Chinese economy is really great at producing stuff, how does it get better at consuming stuff
 
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