Chinese Economics Thread

[Mr T]

The U.S. spends the most on health care per capita in the world with the worst health outcome so that should show you that it's not simply about the funding per se but how the funds are being utilized in the most effective and efficient way. China does need to ramp up her Healthcare spending but it'll be done so according to their own conclusions and studies of their population.

That's why I mentioned the US and other countries regarding social welfare. Social welfare is not just healthcare spending. And whilst there is an element of waste in US healthcare on unnecessary testing and the like, if you're poor and need an operation you're much more likely to get it in the US than you are China. The "allowance" of free healthcare spending provided to Chinese is so low it doesn't cover much.

But to compare peanuts population countries in terms of population to support your thesis is kinda lame. Taiwan, S.Korea, and Japan combined population do not make a dent to China's massive population therefore her health care challenges is not even in the same league as those 2 developed economies.

Why wouldn't you compare China to those countries if we're talking about China becoming a wealthier country? China's size doesn't make it more challenging to provide healthcare. Most of the population is centralised in cities - something like 60-65%. We're not talking about a decentralised population spread out over the countryside.

You really need to come up with a better argument that is not emotionally based or designed to provoke a response that is not conducive to a good debate.

Were you going to address the point I made about the lack of young Chinese compared to the retirees? Or are those retirees going to give up on pensions and a decent retirement for the good of the PRC?

Lets be real, the US has lower life expectancy and its citizens are less healthy than both Cuba and China, although obviously its going to outperform countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, which isn't saying much. Achieving US levels of healthcare is a standard I hope no government, whether developed or developing, should ever attempt for.

Lets be real, the US has lower life expectancy and its citizens are less healthy than both Cuba and China

According to the World Bank US life expectancy is on average 79 years and China 77 years. Cuba is also 79, so I'd be interested where you're getting your figures from.

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Achieving US levels of healthcare is a standard I hope no government, whether developed or developing, should ever attempt for.

So aim for Taiwanese, South Korean, Japanese, Swedish levels, whatever you like.

 

[Blitzo]

Why wouldn't you compare China to those countries if we're talking about China becoming a wealthier country? China's size doesn't make it more challenging to provide healthcare. Most of the population is centralised in cities - something like 60-65%. We're not talking about a decentralised population spread out over the countryside.

Because it is a notable milestone, and because of the userbase of this forum, a positive milestone like that is being celebrated, but it doesn't mean other challenges are being ignored or that other challenges do not exist.

Instead, it is perceived that you are "at what cost"-ing the milestone. Of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but the intentions, hopes and anxieties behind words are also quite easily inferred.

 

[AndrewS]

If we're looking at healthcare systems around the world, I'd rank Singapore as the best by a long shot.

You arguably have the best health outcomes anywhere in the world.
Plus total healthcare spending is at 4.4% of GDP, which is by far the lowest of any wealthy normal nation (by which I mean countries where citizens comprise the majority of the population)

 

[SanWenYu]

China is still massively behind the US and other countries on things like a decent social welfare system. It still spends only about 7% of GDP on healthcare, which is not reasonable for what is actually made available. Public healthcare in China is really poor unless you're wealthy, much worse than South Korea, Japan or Taiwan. Unless Beijing's gameplan is to keep ignoring the less well off when it comes to social welfare, it's going to have to make big sacrifices to raise standards in China.

Also China's demographic challenges are much different. The US' population growth may not be racing ahead, but that's not the issue. China's problem is that there is going to be a glut of people retiring in the coming years and at the same time much fewer young Chinese are going to replace them. Even if somehow the fertility rate of Chinese women shoots up, it's going to take around 20 years to begin to see the results, time China may not have.

Don't forget, there's still a gender imbalance amongst younger Chinese, so even amongst those who are ready to have children there are going to be millions of men who will be unable to get married.

And all this assumes there won't be lots of young Chinese women who won't want children, or will want at least 2.

Nonsense.

The mainland has almost 100% coverage on basic healthcare. Efficiency of the healthcare system is even better. The US spends way more on healthcare yet it is still a laughstock. I take it as flattering when you compared the healthcare of the mainland to that of SK and JP because these two have much higher GDP per capita than the mainland.

The mainland still has more than 10 miliion newborns every year. How many babies do you islanders produce every year? Do you even have enough youth to fill up the vacancies in your armed forces? Your population growth is below zero in the first half of 2021. You guys spent more love on making electricity than on making babies. Whose days are numbered?

Speaking of gender gap, the island is not doing better. You probably haven't got the news that in the island now with every 100 baby girls born there are 110 boys born. And the trend is even worse. It's going up! After all you islanders are traditional Chinese who prefer boys to girls. Meanwhile in the mainland, the gener ratio of newborns has been improving since 2010. It is now at 111.3. Yes there is still room to improve but at least it is on the right direction.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Nonsense.

The mainland has almost 100% coverage on basic healthcare. Efficiency of the healthcare system is even better. The US spends way more on healthcare yet it is still a laughstock. I take it as flattering when you compared the healthcare of the mainland to that of SK and JP because these two have much higher GDP per capita than the mainland.

The mainland still has more than 10 miliion newborns every year. How many babies do you islanders produce every year? Do you even have enough youth to fill up the vacancies in your armed forces? Your population growth is below zero in the first half of 2021. You guys spent more love on making electricity than on making babies. Whose days are numbered?

Speaking of gender gap, the island is not doing better. You probably haven't got the news that in the island now with every 100 baby girls born there are 110 boys born. And the trend is even worse. It's going up! After all you islanders are traditional Chinese who prefer boys to girls. Meanwhile in the mainland, the gener ratio of newborns has been improving since 2010. It is now at 111.3. Yes there is still room to improve but at least it is on the right direction.

I didn't know or realize that @Mr T is a residence of the PROVINCE OF TAIWAN. I had an inclination based on his posts that he's an American of European descent.

 

[siegecrossbow]

If we're looking at healthcare systems around the world, I'd rank Singapore as the best by a long shot.

You arguably have the best health outcomes anywhere in the world.
Plus total healthcare spending is at 4.4% of GDP, which is by far the lowest of any wealthy normal nation (by which I mean countries where citizens comprise the majority of the population)

That doesn’t stop them from having low birthdate though. If it weren’t for immigration from Malaysia they’d be in real trouble.

What is it about East Asian societies?

 

[KenC]

According to the World Bank US life expectancy is on average 79 years and China 77 years. Cuba is also 79, so I'd be interested where you're getting your figures from.

The US life expectancy decreased in 2020 from 78.8 to 77 , as reported by the CDC.

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[AndrewS]

That doesn’t stop them from having low birthdate though. If it weren’t for immigration from Malaysia they’d be in real trouble.

What is it about East Asian societies?

East Asia is very densely populated which means high levels of urbanisation.

So housing is expensive in cities and then you've got raising/educating children in a competitive environment.

 

[Blitzo]

No speculating about an individual's ethnicity without their consent please.
Various posts deleted.
It is one thing to talk about political affiliations and biases, but ethnicity is something else.

 

[Overseaschinese]

China is still massively behind the US and other countries on things like a decent social welfare system. It still spends only about 7% of GDP on healthcare, which is not reasonable for what is actually made available. Public healthcare in China is really poor unless you're wealthy, much worse than South Korea, Japan or Taiwan. Unless Beijing's gameplan is to keep ignoring the less well off when it comes to social welfare, it's going to have to make big sacrifices to raise standards in China.

Also China's demographic challenges are much different. The US' population growth may not be racing ahead, but that's not the issue. China's problem is that there is going to be a glut of people retiring in the coming years and at the same time much fewer young Chinese are going to replace them. Even if somehow the fertility rate of Chinese women shoots up, it's going to take around 20 years to begin to see the results, time China may not have.

Don't forget, there's still a gender imbalance amongst younger Chinese, so even amongst those who are ready to have children there are going to be millions of men who will be unable to get married.

And all this assumes there won't be lots of young Chinese women who won't want children, or will want at least 2.

I'm not sure how in China the healthcare system works, is their a pool or something else that every worker or company has to pay for it? If it's not then it is pretty good deal from the government, that they pay 7% from the GDP.
If someone really care about their health, they could use the private insurance.

There is a news from 2020, that they going to change the healthcare system, that everyone can benefit from it.

In Germany all the people have to pay 14.6% from their salary. It's something around 11.7% from Germany's GDP.

I'm have been in the last 15 years just 7-10 times at the doctor. Could I pay directly to the doctor's, it would cost me something in total around 500-1000 Euro, but in total I already paid nearly 60k Euro for our healthcare system and we are force to pay it.