Chinese Economics Thread

Orthan

Senior Member
I recently saw a video which stated China's protectionism policy in the automotive sector will be removed next year, meaning foreigners can own 100% of car companies in China from next year

Anybody knows what this will mean? Will we see a consolidation? Hopefully it creates a few national champions like Toyota or Kia and gets rid of all the crappy "Roewe", "Maxus", "Weiwang", "Ruili" nonsense
Can you post a link to this video?

TBH, i find it very hard to believe that china will allow foreign car makers to own 100% of their ventures in china. Chinese SOE car makers would all (or at least mostly) be bankrupt. The only ones left would be the private ones (mainly geely and great wall motors). Even if the SOE´s would consolidate and create a viable company, the chinese car industry would be much smaller.

This means a lot less money that stays in china.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
lol, you are counting the foreign venture car sales in china. Take out the foreign brands sales and see how many cars are sold in china.

English comprehension failed! Because that's not what you said. You said, and I quote "the chinese car industry would be much smaller"

You should've said " the car market shares of the wholly owned Chinese car makers would be much smaller".

Even allowing your mistakes, and take it you meant my second statement above. You're assuming all joint venture successes are due to....... foreigners which is far from being clear. No one , including you and me will know for sure, where the success lies. Is it due to the foreign capital and know how. Or Chinese labour and its marker size.

So please make it clear before...... lol
 
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Orthan

Senior Member
You should've said " the car market shares of the wholly owned Chinese car makers would be much smaller".
I concede that. But anyone reading it could understand it, IMO.

No one , including you and me will know for sure, where the success lies.
Sucess lies in quality, and chinese car companies arent as good as foreign ones. And that isnt surprising, because foreign car companies have decades of advance ahead of chinese car companies. Its possible that china can, in time, create a car company that can become a multinational, but i think that it will be a private company, not so much a SOE.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I concede that. But anyone reading it could understand it, IMO.

First of all, a big thanks for recognising your error. It takes one to recognise ones error in order to improve ourselves.

However, the second part of:

"But anyone reading it could understand it, IMO."

Well, that's some assertion. I'm anyone, and I didn't understand your meaning. I understood the meaning word for word though. And if writing is supposed to convey meanings, then you've failed miserably. IMO!

You got to understand, I'm a lecturer in economics, and if one of my students writes what you wrote. I'll have to mark him down because he would have conveyed a completely different meaning. IMO!

Sucess lies in quality, and chinese car companies arent as good as foreign ones. And that isnt surprising, because foreign car companies have decades of advance ahead of chinese car companies. Its possible that china can, in time, create a car company that can become a multinational, but i think that it will be a private company, not so much a SOE.

Now as for the rest of your statement. That's quite a bold statement to make. As I said before, neither you or I would ever know where the success or failure lies. I dare say not even the people closer to the Chinese motor industry would ever get a handle on it.

So I'll keep an open mind. But in your case, you have let your hatred of all things publicly owned (SOE) as opposed to privately owned enterprises coloured your judgement. (From your previous posts).

With regards to your last posting about foreign car makers having decades of experiences. Well guess what, so does China. China has entered partnership arrangement with a host of foreign companies in the 1980s. One that comes to mind is VW back in the 1980s.

And in the process learnt a lot about quality and other manufacturing know-how from these joint ventures. Indeed, China has even improved upon these and implemented new manufacturing techniques of their own. Which is why most of the stuff we used daily is.... made in China. Take that iPhone you're typing on to tell me I should've understood what you meant, for example!

Take Seat of Spain and Skoda of Czech republic for example. These companies are on the receiving end of many jokes in the U.K. for their poor quality. Today, no one have ever joked about their quality. And VW only taken over these companies in the 1990s.

I understand you are from an ex-Soviet block country, and everything back then, especially if it's SOE is sxxt. And this may coloured your judgement on China's car industry. IMO!
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I concede that. But anyone reading it could understand it, IMO.


Sucess lies in quality, and chinese car companies arent as good as foreign ones. And that isnt surprising, because foreign car companies have decades of advance ahead of chinese car companies. Its possible that china can, in time, create a car company that can become a multinational, but i think that it will be a private company, not so much a SOE.

And the future is in electric cars where everyone is starting from the same position.
Note that in 10 years time, Tesla's market share in China will be close to zero.

Can you ever imagine the US allowing fleets of Chinese controlled self-driving cars on the roads?
The same applies to Tesla controlled self-driving cars on Chinese roads.

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Tesla, Chinese start-ups eclipse Toyota, VW in the world’s largest EV market as buyers focus on cutting-edge technology
SCMP article below

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Orthan

Senior Member
China has entered a partnership arrangement with VW back in the 1980s.
And VW already had decades of advance back then.

Take that iPhone
Thats right. the iphone is still a product of an american company.

VW only taken over these companies in the 1990s.
VW took a majority stake in SEAT in 1986. Thats 35 years ago. The czech government started to sell skoda to VW in 1991. Thats 30 years ago. After all this time connected to VW, the quality of their cars could only improve.

you are from an ex-Soviet block country
I can assure you thats not true.

in 10 years time, Tesla's market share in China will be close to zero.
Perhabs. But in todays world, no one can predict the future with certainty.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Perhabs. But in todays world, no one can predict the future with certainty.

Then let's look at the situation today.

Tesla is down to 13%, possibly increasing to 20% market share in Europe for electric vehicles.
It looks like Tesla is also down to 10-20% market share in China for electric vehicles.

So today, we're looking at 80% of electric vehicles being delivered by Chinese companies in China, and European companies in Europe.

China’s EVs Force Foreign Auto Makers to Catch Up
Only Tesla has convinced Chinese consumers that its offerings can match the local competition
WSJ

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---

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, the publisher of the
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, predicts that Tesla’s market share in Europe may surge back toward 20% this year from 13% in 2020, putting it neck-and-neck with Volkswagen Group
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, the region’s EV leader. Europe was the world’s largest market for electric vehicles in 2020, though it lost that crown to China in the early months of 2021.

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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
And VW already had decades of advance back then.

Lol. Wait, you're serious! VW having decades of advances before then means nought when all that experience is passed on to your partner! And it was the 1980s. Don't you think they would have advanced together? Beside, production techniques from the 1950s still has an advantage? Come on. Where's the critical thinking?

Thats right. the iphone is still a product of an american company.

This is a bubble (laugh). You're making a fool of yourself in public. A product of an American company........ That's manufactured in ........ China. Go on carry on believing all the manufacturing techniques are only known to the Americans. Lol

VW took a majority stake in SEAT in 1986. Thats 35 years ago. The czech government started to sell skoda to VW in 1991. Thats 30 years ago. After all this time connected to VW, the quality of their cars could only improve.

So it only improved for Cezh and Spanish companies. But not Chinese? Lol. You had better stop. You're making yourself look silly.

I can assure you thats not true.

Maybe technically not so. I know you mentioned you are from the Balkans. Which technically was a neutural country. But it was a socialist one. And believe me I have visted Yugoslavia before you was born and it was every sense an anti-western socialist "neutural" country. Which is why the U.S. and the West was hell bent in breaking it up. So It is only fair I counted it as ex-Sovite block.
 
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