Chinese Economics Thread

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Political spin" yeah sure..

Yes it is "Political Spin" that the Chinese regulator "shot" the Chinese Company just some days after it's US IPO raised $4.4 billion dollars. No, let me fix the wording, it's IPO defrauded the investors.

As the "very stable genious" Trump said: see you in court.
China's credibility and image dragged through the mad once again by the timing of this move.

Lets see how the US Stock Exchanges, the IPO Underwriters, the investors and ultimately the US Gov will respond now.
Make no mistake this is fraud against the US investors.

Say what you want about "Political Spin" and all your nice dreams but this is fraud and theft of US investors. The US Gov will certainly react.

In the coming days, lawsuits will be flying everywhere.
Let me say though who will ultimately NOT lose money, thats the IPO underwriter, Goldman Sachs. This company never loses money lol

@Gatekeeper do you have any comment on the economic aspect of this

@KYli you have a point on that all the Chinese tech companies were under the microscope but the signals for DiDi were not many. This thing came up straight out of the blue. IMO the regulator should had been much more forthcoming and transparent on this. We will see what happens on Tuesday.

And the speculation about ignoring the regulator and proceeding with the IPO shows how lax the enforcement has been for these companies. They have no respect. I will say it again, the action was correct but the timing is horrible for the optics. This has escalated to a serious mess for China now. Who knows what more restrictions will fall on Chinese companies from the US now

The US IPO has been known for a long time. The regulator has no excuses for not announcing it before the IPO happened when it saw that DiDI was proceeding with the IPO
You stated repeatedly time and again that your point of contention is the TIMING that the regulator's dropped the AXE

Does DIDI control the regulator and its timing? Are you suggesting there was some sort of conspiracy going on? You weren't calling fraud until after the regulator acted, until after its apps were not allowed to continue registration...

Not sure how this is proof that its IPO defraded the investors because muh bad timing muh bad optics... maybe in America the Boeing controls the FAA but not in China the companies don't control the regulators
 

KYli

Brigadier
@KYli you have a point on that all the Chinese tech companies were under the microscope but the signals for DiDi were not many. This thing came up straight out of the blue. IMO the regulator should had been much more forthcoming and transparent on this. We will see what happens on Tuesday.

And the speculation about ignoring the regulator and proceeding with the IPO shows how lax the enforcement has been for these companies. They have no respect. I will say it again, the action was correct but the timing is horrible for the optics. This has escalated to a serious mess for China now. Who knows what more restrictions will fall on Chinese companies from the US now

The US IPO has been known for a long time. The regulator has no excuses for not announcing it before the IPO happened when it saw that DiDI was proceeding with the IPO
It didn't come out of blue. Just that many people keep ignoring the ongoing investigation. Chinese regulators making a bold move means either DiDi isn't cooperating enough or DiDi did something that infuriated the Chinese regulators. Rumors say that DiDi stores some of its data in the US which is a clear violation that has huge consequence. I think a lot of negative news of regulators' crackdown has been priced in the stock. Beside, the market is so volatile now that it doesn't really matter much. You can down a few days and go back up in one day.

Did FB, google, or Amazon give much of a damn about regulators? EU tried to rein them in for how long with little to show for.

I don't think you get it. Chinese government doesn't want certain companies such as DiDi to do IPO in the US. Chinese government tries to discourage them from doing IPO in the US. However, these companies want to do an IPO in the US because their investors are the US hedge funds. So whatever restrictions the US going to place upon Chinese companies are not really a concern.

Why, Chinese regulators don't work for the US or the US investors. If DiDi thinks that by being a public company could deter China from cracking down on them, then it made a big mistake.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Political spin" yeah sure..

Yes it is "Political Spin" that the Chinese regulator "shot" the Chinese Company just some days after it's US IPO raised $4.4 billion dollars. No, let me fix the wording, it's IPO defrauded the investors.

As the "very stable genious" Trump said: see you in court.
China's credibility and image dragged through the mad once again by the timing of this move.

Lets see how the US Stock Exchanges, the IPO Underwriters, the investors and ultimately the US Gov will respond now.
Make no mistake this is fraud against the US investors.

Say what you want about "Political Spin" and all your nice dreams but this is fraud and theft of US investors. The US Gov will certainly react.

In the coming days, lawsuits will be flying everywhere.
Let me say though who will ultimately NOT lose money, thats the IPO underwriter, Goldman Sachs. This company never loses money lol

@Gatekeeper do you have any comment on the economic aspect of this

@KYli you have a point on that all the Chinese tech companies were under the microscope but the signals for DiDi were not many. This thing came up straight out of the blue. IMO the regulator should had been much more forthcoming and transparent on this. We will see what happens on Tuesday.

And the speculation about ignoring the regulator and proceeding with the IPO shows how lax the enforcement has been for these companies. They have no respect. I will say it again, the action was correct but the timing is horrible for the optics. This has escalated to a serious mess for China now. Who knows what more restrictions will fall on Chinese companies from the US now

The US IPO has been known for a long time. The regulator has no excuses for not announcing it before the IPO happened when it saw that DiDI was proceeding with the IPO

Still a political spin, only angrier, smh.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
I complain a lot about it but..

When DiDi falls dramatically on Tuesday I will go all in and buy a bunch of shares. I mean thats the worst that could (normally) happen, their app has been removed now lol

So when it crashes, its time to buy.
Xi is making me money, thanks :)
At what price will you buy big? how low will it go?
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
You stated repeatedly time and again that your point of contention is the TIMING that the regulator's dropped the AXE
Yes


Does DIDI control the regulator and its timing?
No


Are you suggesting there was some sort of conspiracy going on?
Yes. The Chinese wanted to make an example of DiDi for going for the US IPO when it was clear that the Chinese Gov has been actively discouraging its big tech companies from doing so.
So yes, this was a conspiracy to punish DiDi and as a result the US Investors in a legal term, have suffered (or will on Tuesday) "material damages".

You weren't calling fraud until after the regulator acted, until after its apps were not allowed to continue registration...
Yes, the investigation was the Chinese Gov punching DiDi but the app removal was a bazooka, ie. a dramatic escalation and a very serious move which will have "material harm" to its business operations


Not sure how this is proof that its IPO defraded the investors because muh bad timing muh bad optics...
It is proof because the US investors invested and bought shares on the company based on that it was not under such serious investigation and that it had its app on the app stores so that it could grow its userbase.

The app removal will harm its user growth. And the investigation, who knows what will happen, a big multi-billion fine or small change to its operation, big change to its operations, more data centers to be built in China (more cost) etc

So as you can see this is Negative for the company thus the share price will be lowered. So the US investors have just (in Tuesday..) lost big money because of the Chinese regulator deliberately being late to its announcement of its investigation and app removal.

And DiDi is also responsible for not strongly making a disclosure for these business risks.

The FT comment I posted previously makes a good list on which parties are responsible for this mess
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes



No



Yes. The Chinese wanted to make an example of DiDi for going for the US IPO when it was clear that the Chinese Gov has been actively discouraging its big tech companies from doing so.
So yes, this was a conspiracy to punish DiDi and as a result the US Investors in a legal term, have suffered (or will on Tuesday) "material damages".


Yes, the investigation was the Chinese Gov punching DiDi but the app removal was a bazooka, ie. a dramatic escalation and a very serious move which will have "material harm" to its business operations



It is proof because the US investors invested and bought shares on the company based on that it was not under such serious investigation and that it had its app on the app stores so that it could grow its userbase.

The app removal will harm its user growth. And the investigation, who knows what will happen, a big multi-billion fine or small change to its operation, big change to its operations, more data centers to be built in China (more cost) etc

So as you can see this is Negative for the company thus the share price will be lowered. So the US investors have just (in Tuesday..) lost big money because of the Chinese regulator deliberately being late to its announcement of its investigation and app removal.

And DiDi is also responsible for not strongly making a disclosure for these business risks.

The FT comment I posted previously makes a good list on which parties are responsible for this mess
Yes. The Chinese wanted to make an example of DiDi for going for the US IPO when it was clear that the Chinese Gov has been actively discouraging its big tech companies from doing so.
So yes, this was a conspiracy to punish DiDi and as a result the US Investors in a legal term, have suffered (or will on Tuesday) "material damages".



Then make it clear that you meant the US investors will be attempting to sue the Chinese government.... (and good luck with that) because unless you were specifically alleging that DIDI was conspiring with the Chinese gov regulators (and not just that the Chinese gov regulators themselves were conspiring with higher government orders etc) then they have nothing here with which to prove Didi of defrauding "investors"


Yes, the investigation was the Chinese Gov punching DiDi but the app removal was a bazooka, ie. a dramatic escalation and a very serious move which will have "material harm" to its business operations

Chinese government regulator has every right to enforce that IN CHINA, they didn't force Didi to delist from the American platforms or US Google/Apple owned App Stores did they? People can sue anyone for anything in the US, doesn't mean they have a case

But you seem okay with the double standard of the US forcing TikTok to be delisted from all app stores internationally because of some lie about US national suckerity, even when TikTok was already storing all US users data in US datacenters.
 
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Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Yes. The Chinese wanted to make an example of DiDi for going for the US IPO when it was clear that the Chinese Gov has been actively discouraging its big tech companies from doing so.
So yes, this was a conspiracy to punish DiDi and as a result the US Investors in a legal term, have suffered (or will on Tuesday) "material damages".



Then make it clear that you meant the US investors will be attempting to sue the Chinese government.... (and good luck with that) because unless you were specifically alleging that DIDI was conspiring with the Chinese gov regulators (and not just that the Chinese gov regulators themselves were conspiring with higher government orders etc) then they have nothing here with which to prove Didi of defrauding "investors"


Yes, the investigation was the Chinese Gov punching DiDi but the app removal was a bazooka, ie. a dramatic escalation and a very serious move which will have "material harm" to its business operations

Chinese government regulator has every right to enforce that IN CHINA, they didn't force Didi to delist from the American platforms or US Google/Apple owned App Stores did they? People can sue anyone for anything in the US, doesn't mean they have a case
Are they still mining for bitcoin in China? Should Chinese people elsewhere invest in bitcoin?
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Are they still mining for bitcoin in China? Should Chinese people elsewhere invest in bitcoin?
My position on bitcoin


 

sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
An interesting article discussing the recent findings in economic history work on the great divergence:
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One of the results is that the great divergence was definitely on its way since about 1700. By the late 18th century Japan overtakes China in GDP per capita, which they call Asia's little divergence akin to Europe's little divergence when the Netherlands and later Britain permanently overtook Italy. Chinese GDP per capita peaked in the early 11th century and briefly regained that point under the Qing empire, only to descend into a sharp fall since 1700.

Per capita GDP in 1990 dollars.
View attachment 74276

China's fiscal state weakness is striking:

Per capita fiscal revenues (grammes of silver)
View attachment 74277

"The two views can be reconciled once it is recognised that a balance is needed between having a state that is strong enough to enforce property rights but not so strong that can it can appropriate all the gains from trade. Indeed, Dincecco (2011) argues convincingly on the basis of Europe’s experience between 1650 and 1913 that what was needed for economic development was the establishment of a regime that was both fiscally centralised and politically limited. Fiscal centralisation was needed to ensure that the state had sufficient capacity to provide public goods such as education and transportation infrastructure, while parliamentary control was necessary to ensure that the public revenues were spent effectively and that the state did not hinder the processes of private wealth creation.

There is empirical evidence to back up the importance of the expansion of both state capacity and parliamentary control in the European Little Divergence. Early modern Britain and Holland dominated Spain and Portugal in terms of both the ability of the state to raise taxes that allowed for an expansion of state capacity and the control exercised by mercantile interests over the state through parliament

Asian states are sometimes portrayed as more centralised and autocratic than European states, thus holding back Asian economic development (Jones, 1981; Landes, 1998). However, there is little evidence to suggest that the problem was one of Asian states being too strong. In fact, it is easier to point to Epstein’s (2000) problem of states being too weak to sustain integrated markets and support the trade needed to bring about prosperity. Parthasarathi (2011) makes this claim for India, and the work of Prange (2011) on the problems of piracy in the Indian Ocean supports the idea that merchants would have been better off with stronger states able to effectively enforce property rights.

Data on fiscal revenue per capita in Table 15 suggest that China and India failed to keep up with northwest Europe in increasing fiscal capacity during the early modern period. Covering a longer span of history, Brandt, Ma and Rawski (2014: 67) suggest that China’s per capita fiscal revenue had been on a downward trajectory since the Northern Song dynasty, falling to just 30 per cent of its Northern Song peak by the late Ming period. This decline of the fiscal state mirrors China’s decline in per capita GDP."

The full paper provides a detailed attempt at an explanation:
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From what I've heard the Song dynasty was on the verge of an industrial revolution until the Mongols destroyed its progress and turned China into an insular nation even after the fall of the Yuan
 

sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Does anyone know what's going on with Binhai?

Usually I'm apprehensive about the western "ghost city" claims but this one seems a bit worrying. It's been years since the HSR, metro rail have been completed and we haven't heard of any economic success like with Shenzhen and Shanghai despite having the same sea access.

I hope it succeeds though, it has a really nice Manhattan/Tokyo vibe
 
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