Chinese Economics Thread

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
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The next time someone says that the United States brought peace and prosperity, show them this. Developed countries are white countries. Can you spot which country isn't white?

Only point I would like to add is that South Korea, Israel, Singapore, Chinese Taipei and Chinese Hong Kong were excluded from the list. Under 'Developed Asia and Pacific'.

Of course, being developed doesn't mean you will be able to handle a pandemic well........

White guy be like: "You guys should be grateful for the United States' protection, the United States made the world a safer place". Yeah right, that's cos you live in a white country.
 

OppositeDay

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Guangdong GDP growth 2.3% YoY for 2020, now at 11 trillion RMB (1.6 trillion USD) making it number 1 across all provinces 32 years running. It has now exceeded South Korea's GDP of 1.54 trillion USD. If Guangdong was a country it would be the 8th largest economy in the world.
Jiangsu is not far behind with 10.27 trillion RMB and it has a much higher per capita GDP at 125K RMB vs 94K in Guangdong. Zhejiang’s per capita GDP is even higher at 130K but has a smaller population. Both provinces should reach 20K USD in nominal per capita GDP this year (@yearly average exchange rate) and overtake Japan in PPP-adjusted GDP per capita this decade.
 

Gatekeeper

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@antiterror13

This just really shown up the stupidity of OZ's wrong policy choice in public for all to see.

It's sort of like. Look, you too can have this deal, if you didn't play silly buggers! Little wonder why NZ was very quite in the recent Anglo five eyes messages.

Their quiteness is deafening!
 
D

Deleted member 15887

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New IMF Forecast (January 2021): IMF revised their Economic Outlook from October 2020; China to report 8.1% growth in 2021, 5.6% in 2022
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The forecast for China is generally in line with my expectations: 8+% growth in 2021, followed by 5.5-6% growth in 2022. Some think it will be even higher; Capital Economics, for example, forecasts upwards of 10% growth for China this year, while Nomura, Fitch, and the China International Capital Corporation forecast 9+%. The OECD and IMF both forecast at least 8% growth; World Bank has the most pessimistic projection for China, at 7.9%. Personally, I think China's 2021 growth will be 8.5%-9%, normalising down to at least 6.0% in 2022, and slowly tapering off from there.

My thinking for 6% growth in 2022 has to do with the fact that China's Q4 GDP last year already reached 6.5%, faster than even the pre-pandemic growth rate. While fueled by the export boom, it also indicates a broader trend of resilience from Trump's trade war, the main cause of the slowdown in 2018-2019. I think Biden is likely to at least reduce tariffs, if not eliminate them altogether, in the next 2 years, which bodes well in the short-to-medium term for Chinese exports. But even without this, I do think China can maintain at least 6.0% growth in 2022 as Biden likely won't slap any new tariffs, and as the consumption and retail sales return to pre-pandemic level. Once the pandemic passes, consumption and retail spending likely will be unleashed again to pre-pandemic speed, boosting overall economic growth

Having said that, here's my personal forecast for China's economy for the next 5 years:

YearUpper Bound GrowthLower Bound Growth
202110.5%7.8%
20226.2%5.5%
20236.0%5.4%
20245.8%5.3%
20255.7%5.2%
 
D

Deleted member 15887

Guest
New IMF Forecast (January 2021): IMF revised their Economic Outlook from October 2020; China to report 8.1% growth in 2021, 5.6% in 2022
View attachment 68027View attachment 68028

The forecast for China is generally in line with my expectations: 8+% growth in 2021, followed by 5.5-6% growth in 2022. Some think it will be even higher; Capital Economics, for example, forecasts upwards of 10% growth for China this year, while Nomura, Fitch, and the China International Capital Corporation forecast 9+%. The OECD and IMF both forecast at least 8% growth; World Bank has the most pessimistic projection for China, at 7.9%. Personally, I think China's 2021 growth will be 8.5%-9%, normalising down to at least 6.0% in 2022, and slowly tapering off from there.

My thinking for 6% growth in 2022 has to do with the fact that China's Q4 GDP last year already reached 6.5%, faster than even the pre-pandemic growth rate. While fueled by the export boom, it also indicates a broader trend of resilience from Trump's trade war, the main cause of the slowdown in 2018-2019. I think Biden is likely to at least reduce tariffs, if not eliminate them altogether, in the next 2 years, which bodes well in the short-to-medium term for Chinese exports. But even without this, I do think China can maintain at least 6.0% growth in 2022 as Biden likely won't slap any new tariffs, and as the consumption and retail sales return to pre-pandemic level. Once the pandemic passes, consumption and retail spending likely will be unleashed again to pre-pandemic speed, boosting overall economic growth

Having said that, here's my personal forecast for China's economy for the next 5 years:

YearUpper Bound GrowthLower Bound Growth
202110.5%7.8%
20226.2%5.5%
20236.0%5.4%
20245.8%5.3%
20255.7%5.2%
Overall Updated Economic Forecast (+/- changes from October 2020 WEO):

Country/Region202020212022
India*-8.0% (+2.3)11.5% (+2.7)6.8% (-1.2)
China2.3% (+0.4)8.1% (-0.1)5.6% (-0.2)
US-3.4% (+0.9)5.1% (+2.0)2.5% (-0.4)
Japan-5.1% (+0.2)3.1% (+0.8)2.4% (+0.7)
ASEAN-5-3.7% (-0.3)5.2% (-1.0)6% (+0.3)
Euro Area-7.2% (+1.1)4.2% (-1.0)3.6% (+0.5)
UK-10.0% (-0.2)4.5% (-1.4)5% (+1.8)
Russia-3.6% (+0.5)3.0% (+0.2)3.9% (+1.6)
Brazil-4.5% (+1.3)3.6% (+0.8)2.6% (-0.3)
Mexico-8.5% (+0.5)4.3% (-0.8)2.5% (+0.2)
World-3.5% (+0.9)5.5% (+0.3)4.2% (+0.0)

*For India, forecasts are presented with fiscal years beginning in April.

So generally, broad upward revision in economic forecasts for last year and this incoming year on upbeat vaccine hopes. Make of this as you will.

Personally, I find this upwards revision to optimistic. I think the IMF is overestimating the speed in which vaccines can be deployed globally, and recovery might not take off full speed until late 2nd Quarter or early 3rd Quarter.

In particular, I do not believe the US will grow at 5.1%; likely, the growth for this year will top out at ~4% at most (although I personally see it to be between 3.5% - 4%). For the US to achieve 5.1% growth would mean a much more massive stimulus + much more rapid vaccine rollout, both of which look remote at this point. For the US' 2020 growth, I somewhat disagree with the upward revision compared to October's forecast; at that time, the IMF likely didn't factor in just the incredible degree of surge in COVID cases and renewed shutdowns, which likely had a negative economic impact as well. Granted, the additional $600 stimulus may have helped in 4th Quarter, but then again many of those $600 checks have often been delivered let.

I also find the downward revision for ASEAN-5 to be quite strange, as ASEAN-5 is one of the lesser-hit regions in the world. Personally, I think ASEAN-5's recovery and normalisation will be much more rapid than what is being forecast.

India is an interesting one. India had one of the worst declines in 2020, so I do not think that the IMF's prediction of a double-digit recovery for India this year is too far off. Having said that, I am interested in how the IMF arrived at 6.8% for 2022. India was already slowing down considerably pre-pandemic, reporting 6.1% and 4.2% growth rates in 2018 and 2019, respectively.

Considering the recent discovery of the UK variant of COVID, I am surprised the IMF didn't downgrade the UK's 2020 growth even more than they did. As they didn't forecast the havoc of the second lockdown in the UK caused by the 2nd variant in October 2020, I would expect the UK's decline in FY2020 to be much more than -10%.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Overall Updated Economic Forecast (+/- changes from October 2020 WEO):

Country/Region202020212022
India*-8.0% (+2.3)11.5% (+2.7)6.8% (-1.2)
China2.3% (+0.4)8.1% (-0.1)5.6% (-0.2)
US-3.4% (+0.9)5.1% (+2.0)2.5% (-0.4)
Japan-5.1% (+0.2)3.1% (+0.8)2.4% (+0.7)
ASEAN-5-3.7% (-0.3)5.2% (-1.0)6% (+0.3)
Euro Area-7.2% (+1.1)4.2% (-1.0)3.6% (+0.5)
UK-10.0% (-0.2)4.5% (-1.4)5% (+1.8)
Russia-3.6% (+0.5)3.0% (+0.2)3.9% (+1.6)
Brazil-4.5% (+1.3)3.6% (+0.8)2.6% (-0.3)
Mexico-8.5% (+0.5)4.3% (-0.8)2.5% (+0.2)
World-3.5% (+0.9)5.5% (+0.3)4.2% (+0.0)

*For India, forecasts are presented with fiscal years beginning in April.

So generally, broad upward revision in economic forecasts for last year and this incoming year on upbeat vaccine hopes. Make of this as you will.

Personally, I find this upwards revision to optimistic. I think the IMF is overestimating the speed in which vaccines can be deployed globally, and recovery might not take off full speed until late 2nd Quarter or early 3rd Quarter.

In particular, I do not believe the US will grow at 5.1%; likely, the growth for this year will top out at ~4% at most (although I personally see it to be between 3.5% - 4%). For the US to achieve 5.1% growth would mean a much more massive stimulus + much more rapid vaccine rollout, both of which look remote at this point. For the US' 2020 growth, I somewhat disagree with the upward revision compared to October's forecast; at that time, the IMF likely didn't factor in just the incredible degree of surge in COVID cases and renewed shutdowns, which likely had a negative economic impact as well. Granted, the additional $600 stimulus may have helped in 4th Quarter, but then again many of those $600 checks have often been delivered let.

I also find the downward revision for ASEAN-5 to be quite strange, as ASEAN-5 is one of the lesser-hit regions in the world. Personally, I think ASEAN-5's recovery and normalisation will be much more rapid than what is being forecast.

India is an interesting one. India had one of the worst declines in 2020, so I do not think that the IMF's prediction of a double-digit recovery for India this year is too far off. Having said that, I am interested in how the IMF arrived at 6.8% for 2022. India was already slowing down considerably pre-pandemic, reporting 6.1% and 4.2% growth rates in 2018 and 2019, respectively.

Considering the recent discovery of the UK variant of COVID, I am surprised the IMF didn't downgrade the UK's 2020 growth even more than they did. As they didn't forecast the havoc of the second lockdown in the UK caused by the 2nd variant in October 2020, I would expect the UK's decline in FY2020 to be much more than -10%.

India's growth rate for 2022 looks pretty reasonable. Keep in mind that India's economy in Q1 and Q2 of this year are pretty heavily impacted, so FY22 still has alot of pickup for India, especially on YoY basis from Q1 and Q2 of 2021.

All economies on the list have "catch-up" rates of growth in 2022 with the exception of China, which for 1Q21 is probably running close to full capacity (minus a "looser lockdown" on maybe 20-30 million people in the latest wave). What is more impressive is the fact that very few high income countries in history have been able to achieve natural growth in excess of +5% a year barring a major recovery from a pior year event.

And yes, I did just compare china's growth to high-income countries, as that is the correct peer set when talking about China's 2022 GDP.
 
D

Deleted member 15887

Guest
India's growth rate for 2022 looks pretty reasonable. Keep in mind that India's economy in Q1 and Q2 of this year are pretty heavily impacted, so FY22 still has alot of pickup for India, especially on YoY basis from Q1 and Q2 of 2021.

All economies on the list have "catch-up" rates of growth in 2022 with the exception of China, which for 1Q21 is probably running close to full capacity (minus a "looser lockdown" on maybe 20-30 million people in the latest wave). What is more impressive is the fact that very few high income countries in history have been able to achieve natural growth in excess of +5% a year barring a major recovery from a pior year event.

And yes, I did just compare china's growth to high-income countries, as that is the correct peer set when talking about China's 2022 GDP.
I don't think China qualifies as a high-income country until 2023 or 2024 if I'm not mistaken?
 

caudaceus

Senior Member
Registered Member
India's growth rate for 2022 looks pretty reasonable. Keep in mind that India's economy in Q1 and Q2 of this year are pretty heavily impacted, so FY22 still has alot of pickup for India, especially on YoY basis from Q1 and Q2 of 2021.

All economies on the list have "catch-up" rates of growth in 2022 with the exception of China, which for 1Q21 is probably running close to full capacity (minus a "looser lockdown" on maybe 20-30 million people in the latest wave). What is more impressive is the fact that very few high income countries in history have been able to achieve natural growth in excess of +5% a year barring a major recovery from a pior year event.

And yes, I did just compare china's growth to high-income countries, as that is the correct peer set when talking about China's 2022 GDP.
I'm still convinced that pent up consumptions can be realized when the mass vaccination is finished. A lot of stimulus money currently are saved up in saving account.
 
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