Chinese Cultural Discussions

I believe we should have a thread for articles and discussions about Chinese cultural issues, not only in terms of difference with western culture, but also regional differences within the country.

Every time I visit China, I always experience a certain amount of cultural shock. I have to consciously tell myself to change my reflexive behavior.

For example, in Toronto, even on crowded buses/trains, people usually do not push. So I'm used to just passively move with the crowd, and I get really annoyed when someone behind me starts pushing or tries to get in front of me.

In contrast, in Shanghai, you *have* to be proactive if you want to have any chance of getting on a crowded train. It can be pretty difficult to make that mental switch, but if you don't, you're never getting on that train, as people will just shove themselves in front of you.

Being the most populous country in the world, non-Chinese might be forgiven for thinking that every Chinese city is like that. Not so. Travel west, to one of the less populated provinces like Gansu or Xinjiang, and the pace slows dramatically. Buses over there are rarely full, and people are a lot more friendly toward strangers. People actually take three hour lunch breaks to go home and have a nap. Most people live within walking distance of their workplace. The difference is quite striking.

Talking with Chinese expats who have work experience in China, I get the impression that in China, it is almost unavoidable that you have to go out for drinks with your employer or supervisor. Indeed, my experiences observing relatives in China seem to confirm this.

In contrast, here in Toronto, I have never felt pressure to go drinking with my boss, even through a bunch of my colleagues do exactly that on a regular basis. I have never seen any sign of favoritism as a result of that. On the other hand, my wife has observed her manager to favor those who go drinking with him. I work at a small IT company, she works at a large retail company.

So I wonder, what is it that compels certain managers and employers to judge their employees based not on their work merit, but on their personal feelings?

To a certain extent, we all have to say things that sound pleasing to our bosses. Even the most open-minded of us would receive criticisms better if it was worded pleasantly. However, there just seems to be a far greater perception in the Chinese work place that personal relations trump competence and ethics. Admittedly, I am only basing this judgement on anecdotal evidence.

Is it because of the large, bureaucratic nature of many Chinese work places? After all, if China has the biggest population in the world, then it stands to reason that, on average, there would be more people working together, and thus a more extensive bureaucracy involved.

For example, two people working together would have a single channel of communication. Three people would have four (AB, AC, BC, ABC). This number increases exponentially with increasing number of people, which means teams beyond 5-6 people quickly become unmanageable. We get around this limitation by adding levels of hierarchy. So instead of directly communicating with the other 5 people, you would communicate with only one person, your team leader or supervisor, whose sole job is to communicate with the people in his team. Unfortunately, the more levels of hierarchy we add, the more distant the communication becomes, and as a side effect, the more diluted personal responsibility becomes.

So if I were the founder of a small startup, then I have extremely strong motivation to hire someone who really knows his stuff. On the other hand, if I were a middle-manager, and my work performance is tied with the year-end reports I submit, a report that I don't even know how it was put together, but as long as the numbers look good, I'll get my annual 2% raise. Now who am I going to pick for promotion? The guy who's always sitting in a corner and doesn't speak much, or the guy with whom I go out for drinks every Friday, and who sends me gifts every holiday or special occasion?

solarz said:

Talking with Chinese expats who have work experience in China, I get the impression that in China, it is almost unavoidable that you have to go out for drinks with your employer or supervisor. Indeed, my experiences observing relatives in China seem to confirm this.

In contrast, here in Toronto, I have never felt pressure to go drinking with my boss, even through a bunch of my colleagues do exactly that on a regular basis. I have never seen any sign of favoritism as a result of that. On the other hand, my wife has observed her manager to favor those who go drinking with him. I work at a small IT company, she works at a large retail company.

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I can relate to your experience about drinking and socialising because I don't drink for health reasons. The notion of after hours drinks even though has never affected my career progression as I don't participate in it, it is nevertheless in my view a very important component of office life. I personally choose not to particpate but realising there are many inherent benefits that I might missed out. People work better together and have more allowance for you if there is bonding in the relationship. It is just a fact of life. I think people read too much into it as sucking up to your bosses. In the context of a Chinese being in a western work context it is even more important because westerners actually have an interest and are open to other cultures. I don't think the dynamics changes even if it is in China. I have worked in many countries including China and being an expat, Chinese and in senior leadership in a major US multinational I have seen things from a multitude of angles. Human being is a social animal and race is really secondary. The problem I see is that Chinese generally are inherently too self conscious. I think it is the face thing problem.

Brumby said:

I can relate to your experience about drinking and socialising because I don't drink for health reasons. The notion of after hours drinks even though has never affected my career progression as I don't participate in it, it is nevertheless in my view a very important component of office life. I personally choose not to particpate but realising there are many inherent benefits that I might missed out. People work better together and have more allowance for you if there is bonding in the relationship. It is just a fact of life. I think people read too much into it as sucking up to your bosses. In the context of a Chinese being in a western work context it is even more important because westerners actually have an interest and are open to other cultures. I don't think the dynamics changes even if it is in China. I have worked in many countries including China and being an expat, Chinese and in senior leadership in a major US multinational I have seen things from a multitude of angles. Human being is a social animal and race is really secondary. The problem I see is that Chinese generally are inherently too self conscious. I think it is the face thing problem.

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I generally agree with what you said, but I feel that it doesn't explain the difference (real or perceived) between Chinese and "western" work environments. Perhaps you could elaborate on your last statement? I would be quite interested to read what you mean by the face problem.

solarz said:

I generally agree with what you said, but I feel that it doesn't explain the difference (real or perceived) between Chinese and "western" work environments. Perhaps you could elaborate on your last statement? I would be quite interested to read what you mean by the face problem.

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The basic premise I have to state is an assumption that as Chinese you understand the inherent meaning of "face" in the social and hierarchical structure within Chinese culture. When I say it is a problem it doesn't mean necessarily in the negative tone but rather that it is it an issue that is part of the pysche and construct of a Chinese if brought up within a Chinese type culture and environment. There might be situations where a Chinese is brought up in a very westernised way that the notion of "face" becomes lesser of an issue. For example, my children would have a different view of "face" as I do and so whould be my parents as they were brought up in a much more traditional manner.

Personally I think the "face" mentatility is connected to Confucianism model of a family unit and to do with the relationship and interaction within the family structure of honouring seniors and of deference depending on each person's position within that hierarchical structure. As Chinese, it means we are more sensitive to offence, being offended or offending in a social or business llike environment. In a western culture, after hours drinks are viewed as interaction at a social level and hierarchical relationship is lesser of a problem unlike a Chnese which might still carry that same mentality through to the next setting.

The problem as you said is perception. No one can change that except the same individual and how he or she chooses to see the world.

Brumby said:

The basic premise I have to state is an assumption that as Chinese you understand the inherent meaning of "face" in the social and hierarchical structure within Chinese culture. When I say it is a problem it doesn't mean necessarily in the negative tone but rather that it is it an issue that is part of the pysche and construct of a Chinese if brought up within a Chinese type culture and environment. There might be situations where a Chinese is brought up in a very westernised way that the notion of "face" becomes lesser of an issue. For example, my children would have a different view of "face" as I do and so whould be my parents as they were brought up in a much more traditional manner.

Personally I think the "face" mentatility is connected to Confucianism model of a family unit and to do with the relationship and interaction within the family structure of honouring seniors and of deference depending on each person's position within that hierarchical structure. As Chinese, it means we are more sensitive to offence, being offended or offending in a social or business llike environment. In a western culture, after hours drinks are viewed as interaction at a social level and hierarchical relationship is lesser of a problem unlike a Chnese which might still carry that same mentality through to the next setting.

The problem as you said is perception. No one can change that except the same individual and how he or she chooses to see the world.

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That depends on who are with for after hour drinks. Would one behave differently around their in-laws at a bar than say co-workers?

Brumby said:

The basic premise I have to state is an assumption that as Chinese you understand the inherent meaning of "face" in the social and hierarchical structure within Chinese culture. When I say it is a problem it doesn't mean necessarily in the negative tone but rather that it is it an issue that is part of the pysche and construct of a Chinese if brought up within a Chinese type culture and environment. There might be situations where a Chinese is brought up in a very westernised way that the notion of "face" becomes lesser of an issue. For example, my children would have a different view of "face" as I do and so whould be my parents as they were brought up in a much more traditional manner.

Personally I think the "face" mentatility is connected to Confucianism model of a family unit and to do with the relationship and interaction within the family structure of honouring seniors and of deference depending on each person's position within that hierarchical structure. As Chinese, it means we are more sensitive to offence, being offended or offending in a social or business llike environment. In a western culture, after hours drinks are viewed as interaction at a social level and hierarchical relationship is lesser of a problem unlike a Chnese which might still carry that same mentality through to the next setting.

The problem as you said is perception. No one can change that except the same individual and how he or she chooses to see the world.

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You do bring up a good point. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if an employee *doesn't* go have drinks with his boss, his boss might feel that he has lost face, and thus resent this employee. To prevent this from happening, employees would thus proactively go to great lengths to avoid any situation that would make his boss "lose face".

This fits with my experience, as even in non-work settings, many Chinese can take it personally if you don't accept their invitation to dinner or something.

Still, I'm not sure that's exactly *unique* to Chinese. There are ways to politely refuse invitations, and even in the west, nobody likes being turned down.

Equation said:

That depends on who are with for after hour drinks. Would one behave differently around their in-laws at a bar than say co-workers?

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In-laws by definition is family and co-workers are simply that. Have social quotient in my view is important. Unfortunately drinks can have an intoxicating effect. Just make sure you don't end up in bed with your mother-in-law. LOL.

solarz said:

Still, I'm not sure that's exactly *unique* to Chinese. There are ways to politely refuse invitations, and even in the west, nobody likes being turned down.

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I would not class it as unique but just something to be counscious of that might become a baggage if not managed. Honouring and respect is universal and so one have to manage after hours activity flow through with some sense of social intelligence.

HONG KONG -- As part of its series, the BBC recently ran exclusive footage of a former senior Chinese Communist Party official meeting with the Dalai Lama in 2012, two years after the last formal talks between the two sides, and praying at a personal shrine he had constructed in his Beijing apartment, complete with the Dalai Lama's picture in pride of place.

In his , BBC reporter John Sudworth claims "the idea that an official would invite the BBC to witness him praying in front of a portrait of the Dalai Lama would seem a preposterous one. Laughable -- insane even." For publishing what is undeniably an interesting story, the BBC should be commended, but for suggesting that any display of religious feeling or sensitivity on the part of the Chinese government is itself akin to a religious miracle, the BBC does a disservice to all those who would seek to truly understand modern China.

The truth is that, despite its media portrayals as a spiritual and cultural wasteland, China is home to more than people who are either "Buddhists, Taoists or worshippers of legendary figures such as the Dragon King and God of Fortune." China also . and . The world's largest publisher of Bibles, Amity Printing Company, is located in the Chinese city of Nanjing.

Unfortunately, when it comes to China, religion is just one example of the mismatch between the mainstream media narrative and the underlying reality.

The transformative changes that have taken place in China have always been accompanied by changes in the way it has been perceived abroad. For many years the conventional wisdom was that China would fail because it was autocratic, corrupt and inefficient. When it did not fail, its critics changed tack to instead accusing it of an empty materialistic success. This "valueless China" narrative claims that spoiled princelings, grasping businessmen are all symptoms of a society has sold its soul and replaced its culture and traditions with pure greed. Take this much reported 2013 poll that "," or from August. Entitled 'What China wants," the photo is of a Chinese dragon hungrily eyeing a globe, inside, the caption proclaims that China "does not know how to achieve or deserve [respect]." But this most recent oversimplification is no closer to the truth than any of the old ones.

Earlier this year, Chinese President Xi Jinping stated that he was comfortable with allowing the country's rate of economic growth to slow. As of 2012, the Communist Party of China has also written into its constitution the need for the "establishment of ecological civilization."

Talk is cheap, but Xi backed up these words that will require China to make massive economic changes in order to move away from the coal that currently supplies 80 percent of its electricity. Even a relatively seamless transition will likely reduce China's GDP growth, a tradeoff Xi has publicly stated his government will make if necessary. These are not the actions of a government concerned only with material accumulation.

By numbers alone, China may very well be the most religious country on earth. Much the same is true when it comes to more secular cultural measurements. China graduated 3 million undergraduate students in 2012, almost 25 percent of whom studied either literature, philosophy, history or education. of any city in the world, with 159, more than New York with 113. The number of people employed in the performing arts in China is 250,000 according to National Bureau of Statistics, nearly twice the number in the United States. Then there is , which at 64 percent is far higher than Japan's 48 and India's 29 percent. And when it comes to law and order, which are surely part of a country's culture, China compares extremely well with other nations. China has a lower (1 per hundred thousand population per year) than the United States (4.7) and a far lower rate than fellow BRIC economy Brazil (25.2) despite a much lower GDP per capita.

The truth is the narrative of a valueless China is one that has been constructed by a group of commentators -- some of whom have only a superficial understanding of the country they are critiquing -- with an ideological axe to grind. The China they know is the China they deliberately seek out, one of unruly tourists and undeserving "princelings." This side of China does exist, but it does not even come close to being representative of the lives of the majority of Chinese, and it is not the side that has been and will continue to change the world.

It is true, for instance, that the Chinese do not make the most well-behaved of tourists. But while a widely reported 2012 poll found the in the world, the top spot went to Americans.

As for the princelings, their greed is surely not incomparable to that of the investment bankers and hedge fund managers who brought the world economy to the brink in 2007-2008. More importantly, they are an absolutely tiny fraction of China's billion person population. , and of . It is the height of absurdity to brand China a country of princelings while most people still struggle to make ends meet.

Now that China's economic growth has begun to slow markedly, the narrative seems on the cusp of changing yet again. Already one hears arguments detailing how China is destined to fail because it is not a democracy and how this top-down style of doing business has made it an economy of copycats and rote-learners devoid of innovation. "Designed in California, Made in China" is already an accepted formulation in the West. Just last March Harvard Business Review published a piece titled '.'

Yet since the new millennium, the a staggering 7 fold. (1 million in 1999 compared to almost 7 in 2013).

Foreign Policy reports the United States' National Science Board as concluding that "."

And when it comes to low-tech, China has an unparalleled civilization on which to draw from. As Professor Wen Tiejun of Renmin University's Institute of Advanced Studies for Sustainability notes, China's 240 million small household farmers represent rural communities "rich with indigenous knowledge." Their practices represent not just ancient tradition but a potential solution to "protecting the environment and providing for sustainable livelihoods."

China is a large nation with much that can be said truthfully about it. It is both crude and refined, rich and poor, crowded and desolate. It is both one of the most dynamic economies in the world and, as its own leaders well know, a country facing serious challenges to do with resource constraints, environmental degradation and a massive and rapidly aging population. But one thing that cannot be seriously asserted about a country ofpeople is that it has no culture. That is not the case, nor has it ever been or will it ever be, and it does not help crucial international relationships to project these kinds of distorted images.