Chinese air to air missiles

Blitzo

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If we consider the idea that 0 degrees is head on (not rear/chase), and 180 degrees is rear (not head on), the way the graph could make sense is if it is depicting engagement range for a signature reduced/LO target.

I.e.: the signature of a LO target where you see its head on/frontal aspect would be much lower than its rear, meaning the engagement range for a head on target would be lower than its rear, if all else were kept equal.
 

bsdnf

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If we consider the idea that 0 degrees is head on (not rear/chase), and 180 degrees is rear (not head on), the way the graph could make sense is if it is depicting engagement range for a signature reduced/LO target.

I.e.: the signature of a LO target where you see its head on/frontal aspect would be much lower than its rear, meaning the engagement range for a head on target would be lower than its rear, if all else were kept equal.
This doesn't make sense either. If it's describing the effect of LO on range, then PL-16 can fly 250+km in a chase? That's carzy
 

Tomboy

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This doesn't make sense either. If it's describing the effect of LO on range, then a hypothetical missile can fly 250+km in a chase? That's carzy
There aint any actual numbers so it could very well be tracking range for a simulated LO target from different vectors. Also there is a RCS plot right next to this graph.
 
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Blitzo

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This doesn't make sense either. If it's describing the effect of LO on range, then PL-16 can fly 250+km in a chase? That's carzy

That depends on whether the graph depicts a moving target.

If they are oriented towards target signatures rather than target kinematics, it could be that it is depicting engagement range for a static target of given LO orientation.
 

bsdnf

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There aint any actual numbers so it could very well be tracking range for a simulated LO target from different vectors. Also there is a RCS plot right next to this graph.
Still not entirely reasonable.

If describing a "all domain firepower field" centered on aircraft, LO's impact on the "firepower field" — specifically on the lethality coefficient K — should increasing frontally while decrease laterally (since LO's effect on K is greater than distance’s effect on K). However, the left side of the envelope diagram follows the conventional expression of traditional fire control attack zone using F-pole and A-pole.

If we imagine the target's LO effect as an ellipse that cancels out the range ellipse, then there should be two relativly sharp angles where the two ellipses intersect.

屏幕截图 2025-07-26 212210.png
 
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CannedFish

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Someone else's interpretation of the ranges shown in the graph. Not much different from what we've been guesstimating, except including side shot ranges.
By the Gods, the
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are already capitalising on this info for more cope.
Can that range for the pl15 be trusted cause it's says 180km every other source say 200km
It's an Indian defence channel, so automatically no. PL-15's range more than 200km actually, around 300km give or take a few km.
If the PL-15 is ≥200 then the PL-16 would be ≥300.
 

TF2001

Just Hatched
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Can that range for the pl15 be trusted cause it's says 180km every other source say 200km
We don’t know all the launch conditions, what’s the altitude or speed of the launching aircraft and the target. Nor do we know what the range indicates, is it maximum range? Minimum abort range? Likely something in between defined by a minimum PoK threshold.
 

BoraTas

Major
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There aint any actual numbers so it could very well be tracking range for a simulated LO target from different vectors. Also there is a RCS plot right next to this graph.
If tracking distance was the focus then they would compare radar models not AAM models. And the sides would have the longest ranges.

That depends on whether the graph depicts a moving target.
It almost certainly does. I would say it depicts something really high performing. The graph looks like a target-centric employment graph, as also noted by others. The PL-12 was depicted to have an almost zero effective range in chase against what was assumed.

The massive uplift by the PL-15 over PL-12 in that aspect is very notable and supports this position too. In a head-on engagement it has a 200% range improvement. In a tail-aspect engagement the difference is about 600%. The PL-15 is a significantly faster missile with a better speed retention and a dual-pulse motor. The latter improves the average speed in medium range shots by limiting the top speed (hence losses to the air resistance which scale quadratically with the speed).

This said ability to sustain high speeds is very important for tail-aspect shots because the missile has to stay above the speed of the aircraft to get closer. Head-on, a Mach 2 missile is still useful against the F-15. From behind, it is not. The aircraft can just outrun that, hence the range of the missile collapses to the range it can stay significantly above Mach 2.
By the Gods, the Cry Hinds are already capitalising on this info for more cope.
I don't think most of the Indian defense commentators know AAM ranges are context specific. I have been reading defense content for almost 20 years. I think I saw less than 10 Indian media articles that I found good. Most of their discussion space is nationalism washed bragging and simplifications.
 
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