Chinese air to air missiles

The R in B1R stood for Reigional It was not just aimed as a BVR missile truck but also to retain the bomber Role. I don't think if they were ever built they would have seen action against a Foe with a Modern Airforce but against a Enemy with a more dated force It might have render a lot of damnage.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The R in B1R stood for Reigional It was not just aimed as a BVR missile truck but also to retain the bomber Role. I don't think if they were ever built they would have seen action against a Foe with a Modern Airforce but against a Enemy with a more dated force It might have render a lot of damnage.

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It was marketed as a solution to the geographical distances of western pacific bases, and vulnerability of tanker fleet supporting a long range CAP against a airforce with long legged flankers.

i.e. PLAAF.

I don't thinking you need such a thing for a "Enemy with a more dated airforce".

plawolf said:

Such a supersized interceptor would only work if your opponent does not have BVR, or else it is going to struggle to dodge incoming missiles. The Mig25 and 31 got away with terrible agility by being very fast and can usually outrun any missiles shot at them at BVR and sometimes even WVR ranges. A modified B1 would not have that even with F119s.

So it cannot outturn or outrun incoming missiles and would be reliant pretty much completely on soft kill measures to survive. Just not very practical.

I'm guess this idea was conceived when the PLAAF was still relying on J7s and J8s with only PL8s and limited PL11s, and it might have been effective against that kind of opponent, but the idea was dropped pretty quickly when it was evident that the PLAAF was well on its way to getting ARHAAMs and upgrading its fighter fleet to have BVR across the board on all its main frontline fighters.

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it has enough volume and electrical power so can put a decent laser hard kill weapon on it against incoming AAMs.
for a 40 g+ missile I am not sure agile fighters hard turning at last moment is of any comfort anymore. jammers get you more survivability.

No one is asking such a thing to do anything near merge in a dog fight.

against an incoming strike package such thing will be very useful.

remember the best conventional offensive weapon PLAAF have in any near future is cruise missiles...

also remember that Mig31 was built to deal with cruise missiles in mind.

Maybe the mysterious missile is for new H-6K? We don't know what kind of avionices and electronic jammer/countermeasures added on H-6K. But from the full solid nose cone, big radar is definitely install on it.

The new missile looks to be a Meteor class ramjet BVRAAM, and would be a logical replacement for the PL12 on all assets currently using that missile as well as new types currently in development. The booster is just for ground launch tests to speed the missile up to the minimal speed needed to allow the ramjet to kick in. Normally it won't be needed because the carrying plane's own airspeed and altitude would be enough of a head start to allow the missile to reach minimal speed using the small solid rocket engine on the missile itself.

The newest H6s have a radar in the nose, but I have no idea how big it is or what kind of range it might have. But even if it has the range to support the new missile, I am not sure anyone would bother to spend the time or money actually integrating a BVRAAM on the H6. A H6 should not be in a situation where it is ever within AAM range of enemy fighters, and it does find enemy fighters getting that close, it should be turning tail to run, not go charging head on at the enemy bogey.

With modern jammers, a fighter can have a fair chance to spoof or evade an incoming BVRAAM. If the H6 thought it was in trouble when an enemy fighter got within BVR missile range, it needs to think again if it goes all in with a speculative BVR shot and missed since it would almost be in WVR of the enemy fighter by the time it realised it missed, and would have no chance to outrun a fighter, the best EW suit in the history of the world isn't going to count for jack when the enemy fighter is lining you up and drilling away with his Vulcan.

plawolf said:

The new missile looks to be a Meteor class ramjet BVRAAM, and would be a logical replacement for the PL12 on all assets currently using that missile as well as new types currently in development. The booster is just for ground launch tests to speed the missile up to the minimal speed needed to allow the ramjet to kick in. Normally it won't be needed because the carrying plane's own airspeed and altitude would be enough of a head start to allow the missile to reach minimal speed using the small solid rocket engine on the missile itself.

The newest H6s have a radar in the nose, but I have no idea how big it is or what kind of range it might have. But even if it has the range to support the new missile, I am not sure anyone would bother to spend the time or money actually integrating a BVRAAM on the H6. A H6 should not be in a situation where it is ever within AAM range of enemy fighters, and it does find enemy fighters getting that close, it should be turning tail to run, not go charging head on at the enemy bogey.

With modern jammers, a fighter can have a fair chance to spoof or evade an incoming BVRAAM. If the H6 thought it was in trouble when an enemy fighter got within BVR missile range, it needs to think again if it goes all in with a speculative BVR shot and missed since it would almost be in WVR of the enemy fighter by the time it realised it missed, and would have no chance to outrun a fighter, the best EW suit in the history of the world isn't going to count for jack when the enemy fighter is lining you up and drilling away with his Vulcan.

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Hi Guys. The basic missile looks more like a modified version of the DK-10 SAM (SD-10A AA,M derivative) promoted at the Zuhai 2012 airshow. It's hard to make out if the structure underneath the missile in the photo is a ramjet intake or something else. It makes to to have a common family of AAM / SAM missles like Israel's David Sling / Magic Wand that I believe will come in both AAM and SAM versions.

this is old news, according to wforum.Chinese make 128X128 GaAs FCA Ir detector to israel.likely it end up in iron dome def. missile.

Some hi-res shots of the PL-10

plawolf said:

Such a supersized interceptor would only work if your opponent does not have BVR, or else it is going to struggle to dodge incoming missiles. The Mig25 and 31 got away with terrible agility by being very fast and can usually outrun any missiles shot at them at BVR and sometimes even WVR ranges. A modified B1 would not have that even with F119s.

So it cannot outturn or outrun incoming missiles and would be reliant pretty much completely on soft kill measures to survive. Just not very practical.

s.

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Actually, It CAN. The concept of B-1R is based on the fact the B-1R has enough fuel capacity for a very long radius of action in addition to being able fight an entire engagement, from initial contact to final exist, at full afterburner and Mach 2.3.

With fully modulating air intake and f-119, B-1R would be only fractionally slower than the mig-31, but it can stay in afterburner and remain at its top speed far longer than a mig-31 can and thus in reality cover more distance during the time a very long range AAM chasing it can stay in the air, than a MIg-31 can. Starting from a BVR position at 40,000 feet, 40 miles away, and 60 degrees off nose towards the enemy fighter, a B-1R already at mach 2.3 and able to sustain that speed for 5 minutes will be able to fire its own missiles, turn and out run any known AAM launched from any altitude.

Given B-1R's higher entry speed, it's own AAMs will have signifanctly greater range, as well as higher end-game enrgey state for the same engagement, than if the same missile is launched from most normal fighter, including the F-22. So the very same AAM fired by a B-1R will be more effective and harder to evade than if it were fired from most other fighters. Most fighters can't turn to out run or evade an aim-120C fired by the B-1R during the scenario stipulated above.

Given it's large payload, B-R can saturate the battle space with its own missiles as well as counter measures and greatly add to situational awareness difficulties of the enemy.

So it's an unorthodox, but far from flimsy, concept. It does depend on BVR missiles being as effective as advertised for the B-1R to be able to shoot anything down. But unless BVR kinematic performance are far more better than advertised, it is safe from being shot down.

AssassinsMace said:

Some hi-res shots of the PL-10

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The missile looks like it has both thrust vectoring and steerable fins, plus large side strakes for high lateral aerodynamic forces during skidding turns. It would seem to be a very maneuverable missile.