China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

Chengdu J-10

Chengdu J-10

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

An-124 yes but the PLAAF is looking for a military aircraft that can be launched on unprepared, bad, broken paveway. An-124 would be a good heavey lift aircraft for the PLAAF but it is too big and expensive worth over $100 million per aircraft. But the PLAAF next generation of transport besides the Y-9 which is comparable to the C-130J which can carry 20,000kg, should also introduce another transport aircraft that can carry 30,000kg something comparable to the Airbus A 400M. If the PLAAF is looking for a truly strategic airlifter capable of carrying MBT then the C-17 Globemaster 3 would be the way to go not purchasing it but something comparable. Though it is expensive and China hasn't exactly perfected the art in turbofan technology. So the turboprop Airbus A 400M comparable aircraft would be the way to go. C-17 can carry 74, 785kg so 2 A 400M equavlent would be a cheaper solution and safer. Two carriers instead of one single expensive one to go down in flames.
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Re: China's transport plane capacities

That's why
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may be an option. Also, there are some
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in flying condition that Russia and/or Ukraine could sell to PLAAF to fill the gap.
..the
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could take off in 1,400 meters (4,265 feet) in fully-loaded condition. ..
[it]was designed for rough-field operation, with two-wheel nosegear and three levered-suspension dual main landing gear assemblies in each fairing, for a total of six main gear assemblies and twelve main gear wheels. The aircrew could adjust tire pressure from the cockpit to compensate for field conditions. ..It is unclear how many An-22s still remain in service, maybe about a dozen or two dozen in all.
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an22_1.jpg
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

Chengdu J-10 said:
An-124 yes but the PLAAF is looking for a military aircraft that can be launched on unprepared, bad, broken paveway. An-124 would be a good heavey lift aircraft for the PLAAF but it is too big and expensive worth over $100 million per aircraft. But the PLAAF next generation of transport besides the Y-9 which is comparable to the C-130J which can carry 20,000kg, should also introduce another transport aircraft that can carry 30,000kg something comparable to the Airbus A 400M. If the PLAAF is looking for a truly strategic airlifter capable of carrying MBT then the C-17 Globemaster 3 would be the way to go not purchasing it but something comparable. Though it is expensive and China hasn't exactly perfected the art in turbofan technology. So the turboprop Airbus A 400M comparable aircraft would be the way to go. C-17 can carry 74, 785kg so 2 A 400M equavlent would be a cheaper solution and safer. Two carriers instead of one single expensive one to go down in flames.
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Sometimes, you need the lift provided by a heavylift aircraft, such as the C-17 or the AN-124, as you can't break down the load into smaller parts. That is why some NATO nations are so interested in the C-17, because they have loads that cannot be broken down into smaller components.

BLUEJACKET said:
That's why AN-70 may be an option. Also, there are some AN-22s in flying condition that Russia and/or Ukraine could sell to PLAAF to fill the gap.
Quote:
..the An-22 could take off in 1,400 meters (4,265 feet) in fully-loaded condition. ..
[it]was designed for rough-field operation, with two-wheel nosegear and three levered-suspension dual main landing gear assemblies in each fairing, for a total of six main gear assemblies and twelve main gear wheels. The aircrew could adjust tire pressure from the cockpit to compensate for field conditions. ..It is unclear how many An-22s still remain in service, maybe about a dozen or two dozen in all.
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AN-70's development has been in trouble for a long time. No one is interested in the aircraft, as most nations are either turning to the IL-76 or the A400M or C-130J. The lack of political will from Russia and the Ukraine to continue funding development will mean that this will be a private Antonov project, and Antonov has enough issues with funding.
 
Chengdu J-10

Chengdu J-10

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

Pointblank said:
Sometimes, you need the lift provided by a heavylift aircraft, such as the C-17 or the AN-124, as you can't break down the load into smaller parts. That is why some NATO nations are so interested in the C-17, because they have loads that cannot be broken down into smaller components.



AN-70's development has been in trouble for a long time. No one is interested in the aircraft, as most nations are either turning to the IL-76 or the A400M or C-130J. The lack of political will from Russia and the Ukraine to continue funding development will mean that this will be a private Antonov project, and Antonov has enough issues with funding.
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Yes China is obviously in need for heavey lift aircraft besides its current fleet of lift aircrafts IL-76 and Y-8. The Ukrain has proposed the large transport aircraft programe to China for the possible future heavey airlift aircraft. Its aparently based on the original An-70 but replacing its 4 turboprop with 4 turbofans. This would give the aircraft a 55-60 tonne payload, classifying it as a heavey lift aircraft. Something comparable to the C-17 only shy to its 70 tonne payload. It would increase the PLAAF strategic airlift and will give them an aircraft that is comparable to the Western C-17 strategic airlift. Already the PLAAF is developing something that is comparable to the latest C-130 Transport aircraft something in the C-130J cabality the aircraft is said to be designated Y-9.
 
sumdud

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: China's transport plane capacities

Hmm? How much can the An-70 lift? I read somewhere it can lift about 103 metric tonnes??? :confused:
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Down in the yellow box. Plausible?

Anyway, here's a link on China's jetted Antonov.
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Re: China's transport plane capacities

While waiting for the AN-70 or some other model, China could get AN-22s and maybe license produce them like they reverse engineered the
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which became the
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. If they
should also introduce another transport aircraft that can carry 30,000kg something comparable to the Airbus A 400M.
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then having a 40 ton capacity is even better for an extra margin- or it could be downgraded by less floor strength/engine power.
Today some
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developers allege that Airbus "borrowed" many features of the An-70 for its A400M: in the end the "evaluation" of the An-7X by the DaimlerChrysler was not a complete waste of time for the German company. Europe's EADS is actively trying to attract some of the An-70 developers to working on the A400M program. These attempts will continue and already there are reports of various distinct technical solutions developed for the An-70 being applied to the A400M to make the aircraft more affordable.
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Chengdu J-10

Chengdu J-10

Junior Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

BLUEJACKET said:
While waiting for the AN-70 or some other model, China could get AN-22s and maybe license produce them like they reverse engineered the
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which became the
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. If they then having a 40 ton capacity is even better for an extra margin- or it could be downgraded by less floor strength/engine power.
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You need both the balance of turboprop and turbofan engine aircraft lifters and transporters. It is really unwise just to have turbofan transport planes because they can lift more payload then turboprops can. Turbofan engine aircrafts require a longer runway while turboprops require less runway. Also Chinese turbofan sector isn't what you say booming. Though they have mastered the turboprop engine area.
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Re: China's transport plane capacities

An-70 may end up with another kind of engine, as was already mentioned here. IMO if the Chinese felt the need for another cargo plane in 30-40T range they would have gotten it by now, or at least be working on getting it. The A400M may fall under embargo- unless 2 things happen:
1. It's offered in a civilian version;
2. The price is lower and/or its capability is higher than other bids.
 
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tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
Re: China's transport plane capacities

i guess it was pretty obvious that this is going to happen. IL-76 deal looked to be in trouble for about a year now. Wondering what's going to happen.
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Russia Not to Profit on Il-76 Deliveries to China
Russia has faced difficulties while implementing the contract for delivering
Il-76 aircraft to China, Gazeta reported on Monday.
Sticking to the prices of 2005 agreement will result in material losses for
Russia, said Ilyushin Aviation Complex General Director Viktor Livanov. So, the
contract has been suspended and today's concern is to find ways to execute it
without hefty financial losses.

The difficulties related to the contract's implementation will be the highlight
of negotiations that Boris Aleshin, chief of Federal Agency for Industry, will
hold in Uzbekistan.

The thing is that the subcontractor is Uzbek Tashkent Aviation and Production
Association. This enterprise used to make such aircraft in time of the former
Soviet Union and Russia lacks the respective facilities.

According to analysts, Russia is willing to construct an Il-76 production line
in one of its enterprises and may suggest amending the contract to partners in
China, prodding them to share the costs for launching the line. The estimated
amount is between $80 million and $100 million.
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Russian-Chinese deal of 38 Ilyushin aircraft suspended (repeat)

Moscow. May 14. INTERFAX-AVN - The execution of a contract for the sale
of 34 Ilyushin Il-76MD military transport aircraft and four Il-78 tanker
planes by Russia to China has virtually grounded to a halt, Viktor
Livanov, the general director of the Ilyushin aircraft company, told
Interfax.
The sale of the planes at the price indicated on the contract will
inflict huge losses on the company, Livanov said. "Discussions are
underway, including with the Chinese side, on how to implement the
contract in this situation," he said.
Aircraft production costs have soared as prices for materials and
components have risen significantly recently, and the dollar exchange
rate has simultaneously gone down, Livanov said. All these factors have
made the contract unprofitable, he said.
The contract to ship 38 planes to China was signed in September 2005.
Experts estimated its value at about $1.5 billion. The first planes were
supposed to be shipped to China in 2007, and the contract should be
implemented by 2012.
China confirmed the contract's validity in February 2007, but Russia has
not yet done so. The first plane is supposed to be shipped to China 16
months after the contract is mutually confirmed.
As the Tashkent aircraft manufacturing association has proven unable to
fulfill the contract, the transfer of the Il-76 production to Ulyanovsk
is now under consideration.
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